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Apple Lays Off 200 Employees from Autonomous Car Unit

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321–330 of 391 posts

Re: Apple Lays Off 200 Employees from Autonomous Car Unit

#321

A lot of negativity here. Hey maybe Apple has figured out autonomous car and no longer needs that 200 employees!

As usual. The truth is that Apple hasn't promised anything and delivered nothing. Google on the other side, has promised everything and delivered nothing. And they promissed it "in five years" in 2012...

Delivered nothing over the millions of fully autonomous miles? Delivered nothing to the residents of the Phoenix area who are using their SDC?

And, yes, as usual, tech company way over-promising on timelines. But that's no different from anyone else trying to generate hype and garner investments/public partners.

Re: Apple Lays Off 200 Employees from Autonomous Car Unit

#322
post #93

Maybe Apple doesn't want to pursue a dream which, as far as we know, can only have a limited outcome? They don't really like such compromises in products. Check this: https://medium.com/s/story/self-driving-cars-will-always-be-... > Waymo’s CEO, John Krafcik, has admitted that a self-driving car that can drive in any condition, on any road, without ever needing a human to take control—usually called a “level five” au…

Oh, John Krafcik 'admitted it.' As if the rest of us couldn't draw such an obvious conclusion.

Autonomous cars can only treat the symptom, not the disease. The real problem is traffic due to suburban sprawl. People need to quit commuting into cities every day, put $50 tolls on the streets during rush hour into major cities, make bus service free.

Re: Apple Lays Off 200 Employees from Autonomous Car Unit

#323

In dense urban environments, like say FiDi areas - why not have sensor and car-control infrastructure integrated into the city streets/curbs/sidewalks. One doesnt have to realy on the most amazing sensors in a car if the city can be responsible for driving the vehicles down its pathways. Let the car enter a given area and relinquish a certain amount of control from the car to the environment it is in. Let the traffic…

A nice idea in theory, however most cities are woefully behind on public infrastructure to begin with. They're going to be much, much slower to roll-out than any self-contained SDC by SV or Detroit makers.

Recall that company that was installing parking spot sensors in SF? What happened to them?

But a company could support making a "Smart Curb" which monitors all traffic infomation around it, acts as a beacon, and does other things...

Lots of "iot" ideas could happen from that - like all the Scooters replying to the curbs stating their location.

People could choose a ble beacon tag for their traditional bikes and could have it always visible. Effectively a BLE beacon fabric in an urban environment is an interesting idea to me.

Re: Apple Lays Off 200 Employees from Autonomous Car Unit

#324
post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the biggest advantages humans have is that humans can take risks. We have agency . Computers cannot take risks; not because they cannot be programmed to take risks, but because they are programmed by huge corporations with massive, centralized liability. This is why level five autonomous cars will never exist. It's not a technical problem; it's a political one. Its easy for someone on hackernews to say "maybe…

> over 100 people die every day in traditional vehicle accidents. Which isn't acceptable either. To some degree, people look towards autonomous vehicles as a way of reducing the number of fatalities/injuries on the road. If they're not better than humans & the other benefits don't add up, they won't be accepted.

>Which isn't acceptable either.

Based purely on the evidence at hand, our society deems it not only acceptable but not even noteworthy.

Re: Apple Lays Off 200 Employees from Autonomous Car Unit

#325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren’t the Tesla Model S/X the safest cars in the world, though?

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/07/06/insurance-institute-for-high...

An aside:

"While IIHS and dozens of other private industry groups around the world have methods and motivations that suit their own subjective purposes, the most objective and accurate independent testing of vehicle safety is currently done by the U.S. government, which found Model S and Model X to be the two cars with the lowest probability of injury of any cars that it has ever tested, making them the safest cars in history.""

Oy. "that suit their own subjective purposes"? Really?

"So, why the difference between the two crash tests? NHTSA's evaluation does not include small overlap front-end collisions, which the IIHS blames for about a quarter of the injuries and fatalities in front-end crashes."

Re: Apple Lays Off 200 Employees from Autonomous Car Unit

#326
post #93

Maybe Apple doesn't want to pursue a dream which, as far as we know, can only have a limited outcome? They don't really like such compromises in products. Check this: https://medium.com/s/story/self-driving-cars-will-always-be-... > Waymo’s CEO, John Krafcik, has admitted that a self-driving car that can drive in any condition, on any road, without ever needing a human to take control—usually called a “level five” au…

> In short, sensors on autonomous vehicles don’t work well in snow or rain—and that may never change.

There are sensors that can see through snow. They are very expensive, and only in the lab right now, but in the very near future there will (not "may") be processing packages that can fuse optical, radar, and other data into a coherent picture that will allow a computer to see a snow-covered road, through falling snow, better than a human could ever hope to.

I have seen a synthetic aperture radar system that can see through several inches of snow with such a resolution that it can detect paint lines beneath the snow and create a real-time picture of what the road looks like (potholes and all) that a human could never see.

It is too expensive today, but tomorrow?

Not only that, but with gyroscopes, rotation sensors, and real-time communications between vehicles, an automobile that can see through the snow like it is not there that can also talk to other cars will (not can) be able to know ahead of time what road and grip conditions are like based on vehicles that have previously and recently gone through the area. It will be able to adjust its driving to match conditions that are impossible for even the best human driver who has ever existed to detect.

Having 360-degree multi-band RADAR coverage, fused with optical, LiDAR, ultrasonic, and other technologies will result in systems that can: see that it is snowing, see how much snow there is, see the road through the snow, see ice beneath the snow, predict what the road conditions will be in a certain amount of time based on current and forecasted conditions, inform other cars about current conditions, know what conditions are at points on its route in the future and plan accordingly, and ultimately not care that it is snowing so long as it can cope with the conditions.

Today, hooking up some cameras and LIDAR to an Nvidia Jetson doesn't result in a car that can drive in the snow better than a human.

Tomorrow isn't today.

A human driving in heavy rain at night, hunched over the steering wheel squinting out into the distance, radio silenced to minimize distractions, hazard lights on to warn other drivers, never sure of the depth of any puddle that may be on the road, maybe a little tipsy from dinner and tired from a long day's work, will one day be seen as a wildly dangerous and unreasonable risk compared to automated systems with sensor suites that don't care if it is dark and raining and which can map the depth of any standing water with millimeter precision.

Re: Apple Lays Off 200 Employees from Autonomous Car Unit

#327
post #86
post #61

I don't think Apple has advancements in machine learning tech as much as its competitors. For example, take a look at how primitive Siri is. It struggles a lot in comparison to its competitors even for some basic commands. Or, take a look at Apple Music's recommendation system in comparison to Spotify's discover weekly. Now, take a look at Amazon and Google. They both have their own cloud infrastructure (which ironic…

This is totally unfounded. Their market-leading bokeh camera effect is powered by a “state of the art image recognition system” including custom silicon (the “neural engine”). Siri has gotten a lot better especially at natural language recognition.[1] The HomePod for example is exceptionally good at detecting Hey Siri commands while loud music is playing. That’s all local machine learning processing coupled with a gr…

What you're describing on the HomePod is "ASR," automatic speech recognition, which is a separate function from natural language recognition. ASR is converting spoken language to (the correct) words, basically dictation; NLR is "I have these words, now what do I do with them." This is a distinction I've learned from working at Viv Labs, which is producing its own voice assistant. (Samsung's Bixby 2.0 is basically our Viv, and it's an entirely different product than the 1.0 version, which was basically a rebranded S-Voice.)

Having said that, I think Siri is better at NLR than it's often given credit for, and Alexa is much worse than it's often given credit for; Alexa's NLR seems less akin to its competitors than that of a 1980s text adventure, i.e., "use exactly this precise phrasing or you won't be able to [get the treasure | turn on your living room lights]". Amazon's real strength is in making it so damn easy to write Alexa skills and to forge deals with hardware/appliance vendors, which goes back to your "breadth of services" observation.

Re: Apple Lays Off 200 Employees from Autonomous Car Unit

#328
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple is far behind its competitors in pretty much every area except hardware. They are still terrible at running stable web services. There is a new critical bug or security hole in their OS every month. And all of their non-hardware offerings - Apple Maps, Apple Music, iCloud, iTunes, Siri etc. - range from very bad to average. IMO they need to be investing a LOT more on the software side of things if they intend t…

There are announced security holes in every operating system. But unlike Android, iOS users can actually get security patches for years after they buy their device. Android still has a horrible permission system after all of these years and privacy is laughable. And as far as “iPhones sells are drying up”. They are still predicted to report the second highest revenues this quarter of any company in history - only sur…

"They are still predicted to report the second highest revenues this quarter of any company in history - only surpassed by their previous record."

Profits, perhaps, but not revenues.

Re: Apple Lays Off 200 Employees from Autonomous Car Unit

#329
Right now roads are designed for "human sensors." At some point we'll need to redesign the roads for new kinds of sensors. I have no idea what this will look like, maybe all the roads will have RFID in them or some other tech. I think that's the hurdle we haven't gotten past yet, recognizing we need new roads.

Re: Apple Lays Off 200 Employees from Autonomous Car Unit

#330

In dense urban environments, like say FiDi areas - why not have sensor and car-control infrastructure integrated into the city streets/curbs/sidewalks. One doesnt have to realy on the most amazing sensors in a car if the city can be responsible for driving the vehicles down its pathways. Let the car enter a given area and relinquish a certain amount of control from the car to the environment it is in. Let the traffic…

This is a great idea! And the tech to do it is already available. So why isn't it implemented tomorrow? There are too many questions on where the liability lies.

What city would take on the risk of their infrastructure failing causing economic, or even worse physical, harm?

What balance of control do you allow? Can a driver still stop their car? If they can and fail to, are they liable?

How much are the auto makers responsible for the behavior of the car? Will there be a universal standard of signals that yield similar behavior in all cars? Sam the other way, will all municipalities work the same with navigation systems in cars?

I hope a city tries this, and I hope it goes well, and I hope it happens soon. But what I want to see most is answers to these concerns around liability. That's what will spur real progress.

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