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My Parents Give Me $28k a Year

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Re: My Parents Give Me $28k a Year

#321

Post by seatdrummer »

forapurpose wrote: post #313
seatdrummer wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think that HN is a hostile place?

I think it is to African-Americans, women, and other minorities. For example, broad stereotypes and criticisms are made, and frequently comments that say, for example, that racism is a problem, is voted down (my GP comment was voted down to -2, for example) and commonly harshly criticized. When those issues come up, most comments criticize any differing perspective before they are expressed. On the surface, there is…

I think if you did a survey on HN users you would see that most of them think that racism is in fact a problem - that it is not good.

Also, I think its important to consider your comments holistically when seeing how they are received by the community. Of course you believe you comment communicates one thing, but in addition to that you have tone, other claims, and defenses. Any of which can result in a downvote.

Re: My Parents Give Me $28k a Year

#322

Post by forapurpose »

seatdrummer wrote: post #321
forapurpose wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it is to African-Americans, women, and other minorities. For example, broad stereotypes and criticisms are made, and frequently comments that say, for example, that racism is a problem, is voted down (my GP comment was voted down to -2, for example) and commonly harshly criticized. When those issues come up, most comments criticize any differing perspective before they are expressed. On the surface, there is…

I think if you did a survey on HN users you would see that most of them think that racism is in fact a problem - that it is not good. Also, I think its important to consider your comments holistically when seeing how they are received by the community. Of course you believe you comment communicates one thing, but in addition to that you have tone, other claims, and defenses. Any of which can result in a downvote.

I think these are great points, and the second paragraph, in some form, should be in the Guidelines. It's refreshing and encouraging to read them.

To be clear, I wasn't asking why that particular comment was downvoted; I'm talking about a much broader pattern.

Re: My Parents Give Me $28k a Year

#323

Post by malyk »

dragonwriter wrote: post #293
malyk wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think that's unjustified from them? I, as a fairly non-descript white guy, am always worried when out walking near a single female that she might be afraid of me and what I might do and take steps to help alleviate that (walk slower, etc.). I mean, it seems like the most reasonable course of action. Sure, I'm never going to confront/assault/rape anyone, but the 5'2", 110 lbs woman walking in front of me on the…

> How hard is it for me to slow down half a step and give her some relief? Why would dropping back give relief? Seems to me, moving to the side as far as the sidewalk, etc., permits then accelerating to pass so you aren't behind is the better course of action.

Yeah. It's all situation dependent. If you slow, then she'll keep increasing the distance between you. I try to pass if reasonable. Especially if we hit a light or something, even crossing on red if no cars. Really anything that feels reasonable to show I'm not interested in them at all. Hard to give all angles in a comment.

I guess my point is that I feel like you are doing something wrong if you /aren't/ considering how those around you are interpreting your actions. It's like the people at the grocery store who blindly stop their carts in the middle of the aisle and walk away to browse...seriously? You didn't consider how your actions impacted anyone else at all?

Re: My Parents Give Me $28k a Year

#324

Post by derefr »

mmirate wrote: post #320
DoreenMichele wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just one example: An awful lot of people are terrified of being around homeless people. They are just sure the homeless are all drug addicts and thieves. If the street isn't full of smelly, desperately poor people with no home, you don't have to live in terror of being panhandled by them while imagining it will go much worse places than that. If I make the world a better place, I get to live in a better place. Simple…

Or you could learn a martial art, and not live in terror nor take the entire world's burdens upon your shoulders. (Or do what I did, and take a job within commute range of a suburb that isn't infested with bums.)

Even if the suburb doesn't have "bums", the area around your job still does, no? So now you also e.g. have to bring lunches rather than taking advantage of the restaurants nearby to work. Kind of constraining.

Also, even if you aren't "living in terror", it still makes you feel instinctually guilty to see people less-advantaged than you, doesn't it? And I would posit that that feeling makes you less productive. (Just like e.g. feeling guilty that you did something bad to your SO makes you less likely to engage in fun activities with them, which decreases the total experienced quality of the relationship for both parties.)

So, even for someone who lived entirely in the safety of suburbia, ending homelessness might have positive knock-on effects for the productivity of non-homeless people due to decreased guilt (and fear), and thereby positive effects on the local economy, and thereby the local tax base, and thereby would improve local civic infrastructure et al. (Oh, and also, people that didn't want to move into the city—like you!—would now move into the city, also increasing the local tax base.)

Or, to put that another way: moving municipal funding from sidewalks to homeless shelters, may increase the total municipal budget, thereby allowing the city to provide both sidewalks and homeless shelters. "The entire world's burdens" never enters into the equation.

Re: My Parents Give Me $28k a Year

#325

Post by danso »

mmirate wrote: post #320
DoreenMichele wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just one example: An awful lot of people are terrified of being around homeless people. They are just sure the homeless are all drug addicts and thieves. If the street isn't full of smelly, desperately poor people with no home, you don't have to live in terror of being panhandled by them while imagining it will go much worse places than that. If I make the world a better place, I get to live in a better place. Simple…

Or you could learn a martial art, and not live in terror nor take the entire world's burdens upon your shoulders. (Or do what I did, and take a job within commute range of a suburb that isn't infested with bums.)

Being charitable doesn't require taking "the entire world's burdens upon your shoulders". And it's been awhile since I got my black belt in TKD, but martial arts aren't much of a solution for malaise that isn't in the form of physical direct combat.

Re: My Parents Give Me $28k a Year

#326

Post by mmirate »

derefr wrote: post #324
mmirate wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or you could learn a martial art, and not live in terror nor take the entire world's burdens upon your shoulders. (Or do what I did, and take a job within commute range of a suburb that isn't infested with bums.)

Even if the suburb doesn't have "bums", the area around your job still does, no? So now you also e.g. have to bring lunches rather than taking advantage of the restaurants nearby to work. Kind of constraining. Also, even if you aren't "living in terror", it still makes you feel instinctually guilty to see people less-advantaged than you, doesn't it? And I would posit that that feeling makes you less productive. (Just…

> Even if the suburb doesn't have "bums", the area around your job still does, no?

It doesn't have very many, actually. I'd say more about why not, but that would get into self-doxx territory.

> So now you also e.g. have to bring lunches rather than taking advantage of the restaurants nearby to work. Kind of constraining.

Wat? Independently of the previous item, I pack lunches because a packed lunch costs me a little under a tenth of a restaurant lunch nearby. Restaurants are a twice-a-month type of luxury, and I can't imagine throwing away that kind of dosh on a daily basis.

> Also, even if you aren't "living in terror", it still makes you feel instinctually guilty to see people less-advantaged than you, doesn't it?

In a word: no.

> (Oh, and also, people that didn't want to move into the city—like you!—would now move into the city, also increasing the local tax base.)

I like my place for other reasons. Top among them: it's less than half as expensive as an apartment that's near my workplace, yet it's still well within commuting range and is perfectly nice by my standards.

Aaand I don't really see that as a problem to solve; I like car ownership for other reasons, and given that I own a car, I want to use that situation to decrease other expenses to the greatest extent possible.

Re: My Parents Give Me $28k a Year

#327

Post by mmirate »

danso wrote: post #325
mmirate wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or you could learn a martial art, and not live in terror nor take the entire world's burdens upon your shoulders. (Or do what I did, and take a job within commute range of a suburb that isn't infested with bums.)

Being charitable doesn't require taking "the entire world's burdens upon your shoulders". And it's been awhile since I got my black belt in TKD, but martial arts aren't much of a solution for malaise that isn't in the form of physical direct combat.

upthread:

> they are just sure the homeless are all drug addicts and thieves

/upthread

> but martial arts aren't much of a solution for malaise that isn't in the form of physical direct combat.

Attempted theft doesn't qualify? Most interesting.

Re: My Parents Give Me $28k a Year

#328

Post by danso »

mmirate wrote: post #327
danso wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being charitable doesn't require taking "the entire world's burdens upon your shoulders". And it's been awhile since I got my black belt in TKD, but martial arts aren't much of a solution for malaise that isn't in the form of physical direct combat.

upthread: > they are just sure the homeless are all drug addicts and thieves /upthread > but martial arts aren't much of a solution for malaise that isn't in the form of physical direct combat. Attempted theft doesn't qualify? Most interesting.

When u/DoreenMichele said "They are just sure the homeless are all drug addicts and thieves", I think they were arguing the absurdity of such a closed mindset. Not that all the homeless are literally drug addicts and thieves.

> Attempted theft doesn't qualify? Most interesting.

Doesn't qualify as what? My statement about martial arts was that it's not an effective solution for problems that aren't in the "form of physical direct combat". As in, there are other problems and negative consequences that don't manifest themselves in violent personal crimes.

Re: My Parents Give Me $28k a Year

#329

Post by mmirate »

danso wrote: post #328
mmirate wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

upthread: > they are just sure the homeless are all drug addicts and thieves /upthread > but martial arts aren't much of a solution for malaise that isn't in the form of physical direct combat. Attempted theft doesn't qualify? Most interesting.

When u/DoreenMichele said "They are just sure the homeless are all drug addicts and thieves", I think they were arguing the absurdity of such a closed mindset. Not that all the homeless are literally drug addicts and thieves. > Attempted theft doesn't qualify? Most interesting. Doesn't qualify as what? My statement about martial arts was that it's not an effective solution for problems that aren't in the "form of phy…

Problems and consequences? Yes. Problems and consequences that affect non-homeless people who are just passing through and minding their own business? Doubtful.

Re: My Parents Give Me $28k a Year

#330

Post by BugsJustFindMe »

refurb wrote: post #251
BugsJustFindMe wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Compared to a black person living in the same place and going to the same school and having the same number of living parents with the same jobs and same dedication to success, probably very good. Please remember to keep other factors equal when comparing aspects of demography. Otherwise you've just strayed off into the wilderness of logical fallacyland.

Ok, you’re a white farmer living in South Africa. How’s you’re whiteness helping you now?

Quick couple of questions for you...

What percentage of farm land in South Africa is currently owned by white people? Answer: 72% How does that compare to the demographic breakdown of the South African population? Answer: White people make up 9% of the population. Question: In what year did SA repeal The Natives Land Act of 1913? Answer: 1991. What did The Natives Land Act of 1913 do? Among other things, it made it illegal for non-whites to buy land except from other non-whites. What percentage of South African farmland was owned by white people in 1994? Answer: 86% So how much land could non-white farmers own just because they weren't white? Very little. How long ago? Very recently.

So if you're a white South African farmer, your enduring privilege, like it or not, is that non-white South African farmers were almost certainly not allowed to buy that land until very recently. It's much harder to be a farmer without land. So then we need to ask, how did this white farmer in South Africa get there?

It's important to recognize that your life is structured, harmed, hindered, buoyed, and improved by violence that happened even before you were born, that you had no control over, and that you would even not choose to support today. That doesn't mean you live in a vacuum.

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