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Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Visa Ban

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Re: Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Visa Ban

#321

Post by toomuchtodo »

MrEldritch wrote: post #179
wiredfool wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How did Sears do it with Discover, or is this a recent thing?

I was able to find the law I was thinking of, and it was passed in 1956, so not terribly recent, no. Apparently it's because the BHCA defines banks as entities marketing both checking accounts and commercial loans, and Discover Bank makes no commercial loans and is thus not, under the terms of that law, technically an actual bank. (Also, apparently the BHCA restricts banks from operating across state lines, too.)

So Walmart could offer checking accounts as long as they don’t lend.

Re: Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Visa Ban

#322

Post by Nasrudith »

finaliteration wrote: post #113
amf12 wrote: post #106

At this point they should consider investing in their own debit-like card issued by themselves. You prepay it with $100, you get extra 5% loaded on the card, and additional discounts for using it. The retailer saves on per transaction fees since they will have to only pay it once for $100.

This is basically the approach Amazon and Starbucks have taken. Every $25 card reload via the Starbucks app probably adds up to a lot of money in saved transaction fees.

Plus upfront payment of the ammount for a potentially unrealized liability. In interest accrual alone they win regardless of how they do their accounting.

Re: Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Visa Ban

#323

Post by mattmanser »

kitsunesoba wrote: post #71
lowpro wrote: post #26

I hate credit card fees as much as the next guy, but to be fair my credit card was the only way I could pay for things in Asia since I just lived there for 6 months. If I had used cash, the only ATM near me stole my friends debit card, and multiple people I know were robbed and pick-pocketed. My credit card insulated me from those risks, which I was fine paying an extra 1% for. Now that I’m back in America the risk i…

Yep. The US is reasonably safe in this regard, but I’ve had credit cards skimmed a handful of times. These cases were dealt with with little more than a quick call to custom service, but had it been my debit card that was skimmed, it would’ve been bad news. For this reason I carry only a small amount of cash (just enough for cash only bars/restaurants) and never carry my debit card. My primary payment method is credi…

Echoing the other Europeans replying, a single person getting skimmed a handful of times and you think that's safe?

For context, not one person has ever mentioned to me that their card got skimmed here in the UK in the two decades since I've been an adult. They occasionally warn of it in the newspapers, but I've never heard of an actual case of it happening.

As I understand it, most western European countries have had chip and pin for a long time before the US did. I first saw it in Holland about 25 years ago, and in the UK it's been the norm for almost 15 years.

Damn, I feel old now.

Re: Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Visa Ban

#324

Post by thesimon »

llewey wrote: post #208
alkonaut wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Outside the US merchants almost invariably encourage the use of cards. Zero places here are cash only (not even a hot dog stand) but tons are explicitly cash free. [edit: in some places.] The big savings come when you have zero cash to deal with. Then you have no counting/change/armed transport/security issues at all.

That is definitely not true in Germany. There were many places that only accepted cash while I lived there. I just spent 2 weeks in Spain and there were many places I tried to eat that were cash ø ly. In Chinatown in London, as well, many places are cash only. "outside the US" is a big place, be careful to be more specific.

>I just spent 2 weeks in Spain and there were many places I tried to eat that were cash ø ly.

Where? Was in Barcelona recently, even the 1€ espresso in a random cafe was paid by card.

Re: Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Visa Ban

#325

Post by pixl97 »

gruez wrote: post #292
what-the-grump wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. 2% on your gross is a lot and any standard commercial policy will cover cash on hand. 50% of the country is broke, 80% live pay check to pay check. Many working minimum wage, low income bracket do not have bank accounts. The idea that cash is ‘hard to operate’ is a stretch, we’ve been exchanging currency for as long as commerce existed. If you handle enough cash to need an armored truck, you are far above…

>50% of the country is broke what is meant by this? is this the often cited "50% of Americans don't have any savings " number? in savings accounts only

>Some 50.8 million households or 43% of households can’t afford a basic monthly budget for housing, food, transportation, child care, health care and a monthly smartphone bill, according to an analysis of U.S. government data released this month by the United Way Alice Project, a nonprofit based in Cedar Knolls, N.J. that aims to highlight the number of people who live in poverty.

Re: Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Visa Ban

#326

Post by thesimon »

Symbiote wrote: post #309
radicalbyte wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here in The Netherlands you basically can't use credit cards for offline purchases. Everyone uses the European debit cards with chip/pin. The fees are very low too, it's cheaper to process than cash is.

> Everyone uses the European debit cards with chip/pin Actually, everyone uses Dutch debit cards with Chip+PIN. Colleagues and I had trouble using debit cards from other EU countries on our last visit.

Maestro/VPay cards should work fine. Debit MasterCard/Visa Debit is the issue.

Re: Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Visa Ban

#327

Post by pgm8705 »

phkahler wrote: post #315
tonyb wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Going "cash-less" is a growing trend in the restaurant world. I know several restaurant owners that are moving that direction for the reasons you listed. Time is one of the biggest ones, you have to have someone (normally a manager) dedicated to cash management before opening and after closing.

>> Time is one of the biggest ones, you have to have someone (normally a manager) dedicated to cash management before opening and after closing. When I eat with a group of people, it's very common that I'm the only one who pays cash. It's also very common that taking care of my bill is the fastest of them all. It's easiest on the wait-persons time. But since the owners generally fuck over the wait staff anyway, it's…

In America, paying with cash is so much faster because of the still way too common and outdated process for credit cards: Bring bill to customer > walk away while they review > return to collect card > go to fixed portal to run transaction > return to customer with receipt > walk away again > return to collect receipt with tip amount

More restaurants need to start adopting handheld terminals for waitstaff, which reduces the whole process to 1 step and makes it faster than cash since they do not need to go fetch change.

Re: Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Visa Ban

#328

Post by alkonaut »

Nasrudith wrote: post #293
alkonaut wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know - I went to Berlin and noticed Taxis wanted cash and would not accept cards. Was like traveling 20 years back in time. I did not mean to say all places outside the US

That is common with taxis for some reason - probably transaction fees, processing lag time or tax evasion. I know some cities had to pass "broken" card readers are free laws to discourage taxis that claimed to accept cards but really don't.

Yes I think it’s just the taxi drivers who are used to being able to get some tax free money, and now resist complete transparency.

Re: Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Visa Ban

#329

Post by MrEldritch »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #321
MrEldritch wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was able to find the law I was thinking of, and it was passed in 1956, so not terribly recent, no. Apparently it's because the BHCA defines banks as entities marketing both checking accounts and commercial loans, and Discover Bank makes no commercial loans and is thus not, under the terms of that law, technically an actual bank. (Also, apparently the BHCA restricts banks from operating across state lines, too.)

So Walmart could offer checking accounts as long as they don’t lend.

Yep. I thought the law was more restrictive than it was.

Re: Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Visa Ban

#330

Post by alkonaut »

Jommi wrote: post #263
raverbashing wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair the only place where I saw taxis accepting cards as a rule was NYC Practical, still a bit weary though especially without EMV readers

Go to any place in northern Europe and it's basically only card.

It’s come to the point where I wouldn’t even think twice about ordering a hot dog in a stand with no cash on me. It’s 99.99% chance that they accept card, because if they didn’t they couldn’t sell a single hot dog as no one has cash.
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