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Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

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Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#321

Post by gaius »

jimmaswell wrote: post #311
gaius wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

who can't tell me how to implement cycle detection You should read this before asking that again http://www.nihlos.com/2009/05/04/stupid-interview-questions/ When my Macbook Pro is "locked" it flashes an image of the desktop screen just before switching to the login prompt. Same with my Mac Mini on the lock screen. Very easy to start a camera going (say an iPhone) waggle the mouse and get a screenshot of any locked M…

This sounds like the kind of applicant who would complain that fizzbuzz has no real world application. Despite the attitude in that article, there are real applications of cycle detection. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycle_detection#Applications

It sounds like the kind of applicant who understands the problem far better than the interviewer. So go on then: once you have detected it, what algorithm would you use to repair it? Wouldn’t you consider its existence to be a bug in the way the list was constructed?

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#322

Post by e_proxus »

manigandham wrote: post #79

Apple biggest UX failures always stem from putting form before function. There is a lower limit to thinness/lightness before consumers just don't care, and it was passed long ago. There was great progress made with the unibody Macbook Pros and the Macbook Airs but these latest models are so thin that it's actually annoying and leads to issues like poor battery life, lack of repair-ability, and malfunctioning keyboard…

In my opinion Apple has a very mixed track record when it comes to "jumping the gun."

Some things they did exactly when needed (removing the CD drive, Retina displays, ...can't think of any others right now).

Other things they did way too early (butterfly keycaps, trackpad size, touch bar, USB C, removing the headphone jack on iPhone).

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#323

Post by erikb »

The whole analysis loses a lot of it's weight if one considers that since around 2010 companies actively focus on reducing(!) repairability. For the producer it's a desired feature. And the market doesn't seem to care that much. Yes, people complain, but then they still go and buy a new $1k smart phone every year or two. At least in a professional environment they do the same with their $1.5k Macbook Pros. Hell, some people buy a new one, because they don't like the stickers on top of their old one anymore.

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#324

Post by gaius »

mulmen wrote: post #286
gaius wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

who can't tell me how to implement cycle detection You should read this before asking that again http://www.nihlos.com/2009/05/04/stupid-interview-questions/ When my Macbook Pro is "locked" it flashes an image of the desktop screen just before switching to the login prompt. Same with my Mac Mini on the lock screen. Very easy to start a camera going (say an iPhone) waggle the mouse and get a screenshot of any locked M…

I think this is because the Mac doesn’t lock at all by default. The actual behavior seems to be “prompt for password after screen saver is interrupted” so that flash is the time it takes the OS to realize the screensaver just turned off and it’s time to ask for the password on the lock screen. When I leave my Mac I always do a ctrl-shift-eject/power to force the lock immediately.

The saving a screenshot and immediately showing it is a UI trick to make waking up/unlocking look faster, gives the user something to look at while the apps are actually restoring to running state. Just they didn’t think this one through or test it adequately

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#325

Post by __m »

blhack wrote: post #189

I wish apple would just make a line of laptops aimed at professionals. They could give us back a real keyboard, give us back USB ports, give us back swappable batteries, and give us back SD card readers (although this could be microsd at this point). They could even call it "macbook professional" or something like that. /s There is just absolutely no reason for these changes. The lack of USB ports on this laptop is s…

don't forget the cd drive and sweet floppy disc

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#326

Post by andreareina »

cobookman wrote: post #141
stcredzero wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say the issue is, and continues to be, growing pains. They're certainly losing the lead in software engineer talent (giving it away to whom, I'm not sure). I keep on interviewing recent Comp Sci graduates who have a 3.75 or a 4.0 and who can't tell me how to implement cycle detection -- to the extent that they could write a pseudocode function signature or some kind of concretely implementable design. Many of the…

Those things aren't taught in CS programs as the majority of companies don't need those skills. Most want application development such-as a web or iOS app developer. However Computer Engineering programs teach those concepts as the focus is on low power micro controllers.

A Computer Science program that doesn't teach cycle detection is a bad Computer Science program. It might still be a good engineering program.

I enrolled in a CS program as a self-taught programmer specifically because I wanted a better grounding in the theoretical foundations.

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#327

Post by antouank »

acomjean wrote: post #9
phinnaeus wrote: post #3

Realistically, I just can't really see Apple fixing this by introducing a new keyboard design that's any thicker. As much as I would love to hear "We've heard your feedback on the keyboards and we've made some drastic changes to address them in our new Macbook Pro", it just doesn't seem like their style. What do others think they're going to do for their next release of laptops?

I think they'll gradually improve the keyboard. It won't be great but it will be good enough. like the "don't hold it that way" antenna gate problem and the phone bending problems.. They'll fix.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPhone_4#Antenna https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPhone_6#Chassis_bending Honestly, its hard to get off the mac ecosystem though. I have a macbook pro, and am starting to look at linux laptops. Th…

I'm about to get a new laptop. I had an MBP for 4 years now. I just ordered the Razer Blade 15. DELL's XPS 15 is also a very good choice, although the blade has a bit more recent hardware. Both are upgradable. You can add RAM or SSD if you want. Both run linux just fine.

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#328

Post by HuggableSquare »

stcredzero wrote: post #158
cobookman wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those things aren't taught in CS programs as the majority of companies don't need those skills. Most want application development such-as a web or iOS app developer. However Computer Engineering programs teach those concepts as the focus is on low power micro controllers.

Those things aren't taught in CS programs as the majority of companies don't need those skills. Most want application development such-as a web or iOS app developer. This sort of thing is very relevant for someone writing an application or a server process. Programmers who can write their own compiler are much better C and C++ programmers, because they have relevant background. Programmers who understand the low leve…

I'm just going to throw in my experience here as someone who never went to college but currently writes software for a living.

I do mainly frontend web development with EmberJS, and occasionally work on our backend which is also JS, and I've been doing that for a little over 2 years now.

I never went to college and so a lot of the stuff you guys have been talking about in this thread goes right over my head. I've never written a compiler, the last time I wrote any C++ was high school, and I would so easily fail a lot of these interviews if those were the questions being asked. With all of that said, I think I do a good job at what I do without all of that knowledge. The industry is increasingly heading towards web/app dev in a lot of positions as other people mentioned, and I think it's very elitist to judge people for not knowing everything you do, even if you think it's important. The fact that this industry is becoming so open to so many people is amazing. Me being able to find a good job without a college degree just because of my knowledge of computers is what I love about tech. I think mindsets like yours are what help drive people away from it because they think they need a ton of knowledge to get an entry-level job, and that's just simply not true.

I don't want to sound like I'm accusing you of being malicious, I just wanted to share my point of view as someone who is relatively new to the industry and never went to college and doesn't have the knowledge that you are suggesting is very relevant. Maybe it is relevant and I just haven't figured that out yet, but from where I'm sitting that feels like something that could be taught instead of a hard and fast rule for hiring.

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#329

Post by noway421 »

interestica wrote: post #94
oldcynic wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Short of fitting a keyboard condom, or iPad (no doubt called TouchBoard) where the keyboard used to be, what can they do? Make the battery thinner so they can get sane key travel back within the case without increasing overall thickness? So I expect to see a couple more releases of ultra thin keyboards with various fix mechanisms before they accept that rules of physics and dust apply to them too. :)

Have a keyboard that has increased travel when the laptop is open. (raised up?) And have it return to a compressed state when the screen is closed.

That sounds like another complex mechanism to break

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#330

Post by nkkollaw »

deathanatos wrote: post #170

> [Apple quietly announced][1] that they were extending the warranty on their flagship laptop’s keyboard by four years. No, they didn't. If you read the very source the article cites for this, you find, > The program covers eligible MacBook and MacBook Pro models for 4 years after the first retail sale of the unit. The original warranty was 1 year[2]; this is a three year extension. "Extending by 4 years" is just too…

In Europe minimum mandatory warranty is 2 years.
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