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Instapaper is temporarily shutting off access for European users due to GDPR

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Re: Instapaper is temporarily shutting off access for European users due to GDPR

#321

Post by nickpp »

product50 wrote: post #251
jacquesm wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry, I don't buy it. (1) you still hold the data, you are still required to comply with the law and cutting off access does not change that one bit. (2) the period for a response is long enough that once you would receive requests you could handle them in time even if you processed them manually. (3) you have been - or should have been - aware of all this for a very long time, either you failed at estimating th…

Weren't you the one previously saying that don't panic ( https://jacquesmattheij.com/gdpr-hysteria ) because of GDPR back in the day? And now you are advocating that they should have already complied with GDPR given its impact! Make up your mind. And this is exactly why this is such a shitshow. Stop attacking people who haven't complied because small developers have other things rather than trying to figure out wheth…

His posts were clearly politically motivated, zealot-type propaganda. Either self-interest or useful-idiot.

For some reason he is such a fan of this legislation that he is willing to overlook its glaring problems. No objectivity there, I am afraid.

Re: Instapaper is temporarily shutting off access for European users due to GDPR

#322

Post by microtonal »

freeone3000 wrote: post #141
microtonal wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So? Profit maximization of the developer is not the only thing that matters, users deserve to be protected as well. Applications have become terrible in this respect. I use Little Snitch and see many paid applications report to Google Analytics. I don’t want the developer to know how often and how I use the application, let alone Google. Technical users know how to use an application firewall, uBlock or uMatrix. But…

Google Analytics isn't usually used as a revenue stream, but instead for analytics and telemetry.

One motivation for doing analytics/telemetry is being able to set optimal price points, etc.

For example, i f 80% of your user population uses your app daily, it is more attractive to switch to a subscription model than if most people use it very irregularly.

Re: Instapaper is temporarily shutting off access for European users due to GDPR

#323

Post by YeGoblynQueenne »

merinowool wrote: post #145
pembrook wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Instapaper is owned by Pinterest. Pinterest is a large high profile company with millions of European users and would be a potential target of regulators looking to establish precedents of enforcement with a big name. I highly doubt this decision was made lightly and was probably informed by actual legal professionals with knowledge of the regulators in question and not the 3rd party opinion of some guy on the intern…

> would be a potential target of regulators looking to establish precedents of enforcement with a big name. Shouldn't law apply equally to everyone? One could have thought that setting an example "to show them!" wouldn't have occurred in a civilised country.

It's a union, not a country and it definitely won't go after big players with any kind of prejudice. It will go after those who flaunt the regulation, big and small.

Because it's the EU and not some other Union.

Re: Instapaper is temporarily shutting off access for European users due to GDPR

#324

Post by guelo »

tluyben2 wrote: post #320
downandout wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Says some random dude on the Internet that seems to be a tremendous fan of GDPR. I prefer to base my understanding of laws on the text of the law. This one says that no warnings are required and that fines can be up to 20M EUR.

As Jacques and me as well have said; that simply means panic and it is not needed. You maybe do not live in the EU but the letter of the law is not such a thing here as it might be in the US (and although punishment is harsher and often far harsher than it is here, US also looks at intent). The EU is not going to punish any company that has the intent to offer its users privacy under this law, but made some mistakes…

That's the recipe for political enforcement of draconian laws. It's especially dangerous for big foreign american companies which are perfect for politicians to demagogue about. I would not bet the business on any extra-legal grace from their beuracracy.

Re: Instapaper is temporarily shutting off access for European users due to GDPR

#325

Post by hsod »

downandout wrote: post #171
danpalmer wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like you’re making a bigger deal out of this than necessary, unless you’re doing some shady stuff with our data. From what I can tell from various legal advice that I’ve read, as long as you’re working on implementing the changes, and have been following security best practices, nothing really changes on May 25th, and you’ll be able to take your time to become fully compliant, as long as you can demonstrate th…

I feel like you’re making a bigger deal out of this than necessary, unless you’re doing some shady stuff with our data. Seeing this completely false sentiment repeated over and over again is getting exhausting. Only a tiny fraction of the companies avoiding EU traffic due to GDPR have any intention of “doing shady stuff with your data” . GDPR is highly complex, and as of tomorrow, allowing EU traffic invites massive…

It does seem like people are trying to have their cake and eat it too. I'm in favor of strong pro-consumer laws but I don't think it's reasonable to expect they will come without consequences.

Re: Instapaper is temporarily shutting off access for European users due to GDPR

#326

Post by YeGoblynQueenne »

downandout wrote: post #205
celticninja wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably worth reading this. https://jacquesmattheij.com/gdpr-hysteria EU agencies would prefer compliance over fines and would work with businesses to help them. As the article suggests, prosecution/fines will come when all other avenues are exhausted not the starting point.

Says some random dude on the Internet that seems to be a tremendous fan of GDPR. I prefer to base my understanding of laws on the text of the law. This one says that no warnings are required and that fines can be up to 20M EUR.

>> Says some random dude on the Internet that seems to be a tremendous fan of GDPR.

Let's be a little self-conscious here, shall we?

Of all the articles on HN that discuss the GDPR that I've read, I've found one that you didn't contribute to and your contributions never show an "understanding of laws based on the text of the law". For instance, you have consistently claimed that there will be 28 (btw, not 27) different interpretations of the law, completely disregarding entire articles devoted to the consistent application of the Regulation- which, as a regulation, does not need to be made into local law and is applicable across the bloc.

You are clearly on a warpath against the GDPR, which is perfectly fine of course; yet at the same time you accuse jacquesm of being a "tremendous fan of the GDPR". If you can express your opinion despite having an agenda, so can he - and he seems to be much better informed of the law than you are.

Edit: Just to clarify, I don't have some axe to grind against you. You're one of the few users whose handle I recognise because your comments in GDPR threads stand out so much in their fervour and because there are so many of them.

Re: Instapaper is temporarily shutting off access for European users due to GDPR

#327

Post by drusepth »

guitarbill wrote: post #285
drusepth wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I feel like you’re making a bigger deal out of this than necessary, unless you’re doing some shady stuff with our data. This sentiment and the hilariously large fines (regardless of company size, even) on relatively-ill-defined requirements make the whole GDPR process feel like it was designed to bully businesses into compliance. Some pieces of GDPR are definitely for the benefit of the end-user (at the expense of c…

> while the real "bad guys" that are actually doing bad things with our data are going to continue ignoring the law. This is already happening without the GDPR (carders, dumps, etc), so I don't buy it. The black-market analogy (e.g. illegal drugs) also doesn't hold when applied to companies. > the hilariously large fines (regardless of company size, even) Oh no, proportional fines! How socialist! The whole point is t…

>The whole point is to make it somewhat independent of the company size, so bigger companies won't just swallow the fines.

Ironically, it's the bigger companies that can still just swallow the fines and the little companies that just effectively vanish into bankruptcy.

Re: Instapaper is temporarily shutting off access for European users due to GDPR

#329

Post by celticninja »

downandout wrote: post #205
celticninja wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably worth reading this. https://jacquesmattheij.com/gdpr-hysteria EU agencies would prefer compliance over fines and would work with businesses to help them. As the article suggests, prosecution/fines will come when all other avenues are exhausted not the starting point.

Says some random dude on the Internet that seems to be a tremendous fan of GDPR. I prefer to base my understanding of laws on the text of the law. This one says that no warnings are required and that fines can be up to 20M EUR.

Where do you see the "no warnings are required"?

Article 58 says that fines can be issued along with, or in place of, other enforcement action. That isn't "no warnings". Plus if you read the text of the law you would note that it is very clear that the size of the fine is dependent on 11 factors, many of which revolve around future compliance and efforts made by the business to resolve the breach and showing willingness to conply.

Re: Instapaper is temporarily shutting off access for European users due to GDPR

#330

Post by jacquesm »

product50 wrote: post #251
jacquesm wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry, I don't buy it. (1) you still hold the data, you are still required to comply with the law and cutting off access does not change that one bit. (2) the period for a response is long enough that once you would receive requests you could handle them in time even if you processed them manually. (3) you have been - or should have been - aware of all this for a very long time, either you failed at estimating th…

Weren't you the one previously saying that don't panic ( https://jacquesmattheij.com/gdpr-hysteria ) because of GDPR back in the day? And now you are advocating that they should have already complied with GDPR given its impact! Make up your mind. And this is exactly why this is such a shitshow. Stop attacking people who haven't complied because small developers have other things rather than trying to figure out wheth…

> Weren't you the one previously saying that don't panic (https://jacquesmattheij.com/gdpr-hysteria) because of GDPR back in the day?

Yep.

> And now you are advocating that they should have already complied with GDPR given its impact!

Obviously yes, because today the law becomes enforceable. Not having done the required work is just plain dumb.

> Make up your mind.

I made up my mind well over a year ago, spent the time required to be compliant (a couple of days) and that was that. Instapaper being as small as it is would not have had to spend more time than that unless they are doing something they shouldn't be doing, are unable to plan or changed tactics in the last 2 days. After all, if they weren't going to make the deadline they had a very long time to announce that, instead they announce it the day before the law becomes enforceable. That's just not ok. At a minimum they should have had their export facility up and running.

> Stop attacking people who haven't complied because small developers have other things rather than trying to figure out whether they have to redo their logs if a user asks their data to be deleted.

I suspect you are in the same boat?

> This is almost bullying behavior.

Right. Well, sorry, it really isn't, it's the perspective of someone who has been in business for a very long time and who feels that the GDPR addresses some fairly urgent matters. Companies have been running roughshod over users' privacy rights for decades and it is one of the worst things to come out of the internet. The level of tracking and data brokering that is going on is utterly disgusting.

If you weren't doing anything you shouldn't be doing the GDPR is going to be a pretty simple affair if you're a small company. Larger companies will have some more work but have more resources.

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