A female engineer's opinion on why there are fewer women in tech

Ah, it's really complicated. My hunch is that that's part of it but not the full story. I think it takes a mix of factors to make a person self-define as a 'computer geek' by high school, which is -- imo -- a point at which the gender divide in college is already determined. Various efforts blend the categories later on, but they're fighting against the categories that already exist by HS-age.

Some factors:

1a. being socially allowed to love computers, OR 1b. not caring what's socially allowed 2. obsessiveness (3rd-grade me would happily play videogames for 12 hours straight if allowed. Or read, legos, etc. Other kids would, like, learn everything about airplanes.)

3. not caring very much about socializing. 'play over people', if you will.

4. being intelligent

5. having 'growth mindset', the idea that you could go learn something if you wanted to. (I think I got this from books and RPGs and from not being demoralized early on.)

6. not caring very much about pop culture (in my case, because I didn't know about it. sports and music weren't on my radar).

7. being competitive: wanting to learn cool things to, basically, seem cool to other nerdy kids.

8. an innate desire to build things

I would characterize (1b) and (2) and (3) together as being, basically, the 'autism spectrum' angle, which is (I perceive) more prevalent in boys, and I think that's where the main difference comes from.

I think what the social effect you mention exists, but it might come before these categories -- ie, from a young age I was constructed so as to not care what was socially allowed and to want to obsessively play, and so I was basically destined to be obsessed with computers. I don't know how much is nature vs. nurture though.

I also think that on average girls are less (7) naturally competitive and (8) naturally motivated to build things (citation needed), but that very well could be a social effect also.

I think lots of people of any gender have their (5) 'growth mindset' squashed from a young ago.

I also think lots of boys have almost everything on the list except for '(8) desire to build things', so instead of learning to make games, they get really good at Halo and play every day in college, or whatever.

I also think that by the time college rolls around, these categories are all smeared together, and people end up going into tech or STEM (and I guess I mean specifically CS/Math/Physics) for lots of reasons. I'm only trying to describe the commonalities across the nerdy kids in HS.

Disclaimer: all of this is hunches and is from ~2000-2008 and is probably not correct or true and if it was it probably isn't anymore.

If the rest of the discussion revolves around how to drink as much as possible without going broke or getting caught then that would be a fine response.

Yes, improving your social skills can be damned hard. But that’s irrelevant if you don’t even want to do it. First we need to convince people that self improvement is the solution, not isolation. Then we can talk about how.

I read “have a pulse” as “it doesn’t matter how qualified or pleasant these women were, the men were eager to have any contact with a woman and would have taken them on just for that.”

Does it mean something else?

You've described "calling men creepy for no reason" and then described the reason. I think you're really saying that the word creepy means something different than its 'face value', as it were.

Put differently: the word "creepy" means one thing. Actually saying someone is "creepy", however, is a social signal with a very different meaning (namely: your attention is unwanted / you are lesser / something like that).

Parsed that way, it makes sense that that message would not be sent in situations where it doesn't seem socially unacceptable to send it, even if everyone is thinking it. One of the better things about being an adult is that it becomes socially acceptable, usually, at least in good company, to do what's right even if it violates some status-signally thing.

It's sad to see so many people here saying that social situations, especially with women, induce so much fear. Here are some tips from a geek who was in that position, learned a few things, and now has slightly less crappy social skills:

* Stop objectifying people: 'Objectifying' is a kinda intimidating word, but the meaning is essential. Stop making people objects in your mental model of the world; stop making them characters who play a role in your private theatrical narrative of rejection (and whatever else you've lived through). That big scary monster who might reject you - that's the object. The real person has their own entire private universe, like you, of fears, desires, perspectives, priorities, needs, worries, and theatrical narratives. They haven't read your script, don't know their assigned part, and most importantly, don't want to play it - they want to be themselves! You and your interaction play a tiny role in their lives; the reason they respond in X way likely has little to do with you; they may be as scared as you are. Instead, be curious about them - who is this person completely distinct from you? There's a vast universe of emotion and experience you know nothing about - so much to learn! Give them plenty of space and assume nothing because you don't know shit; the variety is unfathomable; if they don't surprise you, you're doing it wrong. More importantly, step outside yourself and care. Grasp that they have a hard time too - this mortal coil sucks for everyone - and be compassionate about it. Genuine compassion is your greatest tool; it also turns your attention away from your fears and outward to others, and you also do a good deed. Humans crave it. (I'm not blaming you for objectifying; I know why; it's hard.)

* Be genuine about your emotions. That is, be honest. You're not hiding them nearly as well as you think; people have evolved and learned throughout their lives to pick up very subtle emotional cues, consciously and unconsciously. (It's a matter of survival for the organism - 'Will the one next to me kill me? Feed me? Parent my children?') And here's the trick: If you aren't honest with yourself about your emotions, then obviously you can't be honest with others. Too many males are raised to treat emotions like a crippled, angry dog they're forced to feed - great, you just kicked out the strongest leg of your little table of stability and capability. Your intellect is not nearly enough to compensate, but you probably noticed that by now; your emotions are actually your best friend and tool - amazingly powerful and they also provide stability if you take care of them. Be emotionally genuine and honest or you're lying to the other person (and maybe yourself); people don't like liars. That doesn't mean you have to act out on them (yell when angry) or announce them at every moment or that you shouldn't have some composure (be able to manage them), but be honest with yourself and don't pretend. Try this: 'I'm such a nerd! Talking to people terrifies me.' That's genuine, shows you can be trusted, and allows them to genuine.

* Pay close attention to their emotions. Ask yourself, 'what is their emotional affect[0] right now?' and also, 'what is their unsaid concern, what is their agenda?' Yes, it takes effort and concentration to do those things while also paying close attention to their words. That's called listening. And it also makes you shut up, stop interrupting, and again focus outward on them and not on your fears or the game/work you're obsessed with. When people see and feel you do it, they really appreciate it; it's like magic. And you'll be amazed what you learn from other people when you let them talk.

* Back way the f-k up and give people (emotional) space, lots of it, enough that they can go anywhere in their conversation and not meet any resistance from you (an uncomfortable look, an interjection, etc.). Enough so that they can develop an incomplete idea or pause without at all worrying that they'll lose the floor to you. Give them freedom; give them control. If you're like me, that's hard; bite your tongue, literally if you must. And that means that if you get the emotional cue that they don't want to talk right now, then swallow your fear and respect their completely legitimate wishes. Your fear, your insistence that they respond as you want, is about that object in your mind (see the first point above). That's on you, not them; they aren't there to serve your emotional needs. If you give them space when they want it, you'll find that they trust you when they are ready to talk. If you don't, then why would they want to come back?

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affect_%28psychology%29

EDIT: Some minor edits