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You probably don't need AI/ML. You can make do with well written SQL scripts

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Re: You probably don't need AI/ML. You can make do with well written SQL scripts

#321

Post by AndyNemmity »

didibus wrote: post #62
AndyNemmity wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't love your tone, but I agree. I have been working in what was called predictive analytics for 16 years. I've done tons of projects, for tons of companies, and this sort of refrain from people is pretty common when they don't have experience in the field. They think of it like some fad that doesn't make a lick of sense outside of a C-level discussion. But the reality is, predictive analytics is extremely powerful…

Didn't you use expert systems 10 years ago for those? Rules running of SQL queries, which you crafted yourself or through the help of a domain expert? I think its fare to claim that companies who skipped that process might want to consider it first, as a cheaper way to start with predictive analytics. But, I'm not sure, I am actually intrigued, what was the techniques used before ML in that field otherwise?

custom c++, pulling data from a db, if that's the SQL rules. Data scientists, plus domain experts.

Re: You probably don't need AI/ML. You can make do with well written SQL scripts

#322

Post by danShumway »

free652 wrote: post #197

The problem with SQL is that eventually you will end up with thousands of SQL scripts. Have you ever tried to debug a 100k SQL? It’s a nightmare. Some of the scripts used to be simple, but got too complicated due to new requirements like this article doesn’t mention how he would deal with multiple time zones, currencies, different type of customers, multiple promotions for repeat customers and etc.

Not that I disagree with you, but does machine learning solve any of those problems?

SQL is annoying to debug, ML is impossible to debug.

Re: You probably don't need AI/ML. You can make do with well written SQL scripts

#323

Post by vivekd »

gnicholas wrote: post #40

My startup was approached by a corporate VC that wanted to make a strategic investment. Based on the attendee list from our meeting, which included very high up folks from the company, I felt good going in. They expressed interest in our technology that makes reading on screen easier [1], but they were surprised to learn that we didn't use machine learning to accomplish this. I indicated that it was actually quite ef…

Why would anyone think you need ML or AI to make letters on a page fit a color gradient. Are these investors crazy? I can't even think of an application for that technology in bee line reader.

Re: You probably don't need AI/ML. You can make do with well written SQL scripts

#324

Post by bytesandbots »

gnicholas wrote: post #102
brod wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I posted that link in slack and it's twitter:* meta content is really strange: Parade of Fans for Houston’s Funeral NEWARK - The guest list and parade of limousines with celebrities emerging from them seemed more suited to a red carpet event in Hollywood or New York than than a gritty stretch of Sussex Avenue near the former site of the James M. Baxter Terrace public housing project here. I found an example [1] with…

Wow, how embarrassing. Thanks for pointing this out. I have no idea how we didn't catch it sooner.

On a related note, the link to twitter:image is also on wrong domain.

Re: You probably don't need AI/ML. You can make do with well written SQL scripts

#325

Post by ric2b »

EGreg wrote: post #286
chongli wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you'll find that a lot of stem people tend to lean Kantian in their ethics. This implies that misleading people for any reason -- even "for their own good" -- is frowned upon.

I am not sure the Categorical Imperative rules out misleading people for their own good. If a win win result is highly likely the categorical imperative says it’s OK if you do it because if the whole world did it, things would become better!

But it's even better in the long run if inefficient companies consistently lose to the better ones, since it will lead to better allocation of capital.

Re: You probably don't need AI/ML. You can make do with well written SQL scripts

#326

Post by CodeWriter23 »

gnicholas wrote: post #318
CodeWriter23 wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I appreciate that Citus Data is right out in the open that entry level is $800/mo. I know straight up I can’t afford it. But they also tell me the size of their minimum instances, which also tells me my product hasn’t yet scaled to the level to need their service. And by the time it does, $800/mo will be acceptable.

Ah, so were you talking about the partner pricing, for integrating into a site/app? I can see how it would be helpful to at least have some prices shown for that, to show the ballpark. For a casual website owner who just wants to make the copy easier to read, the pricing is de minimis (just enough to make sure that folks are serious about integrating and not wasting our time with a bunch of back-and-forth). Shoot me…

I’m planning on it. Thanks for all your awesome interaction on this thread.

Re: You probably don't need AI/ML. You can make do with well written SQL scripts

#327

Post by y_molodtsov »

gnicholas wrote: post #77
joewee wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

VCs raise money the same way startups do, only with more regulation. For that bucket of money they likely presented a thesis for how they would used to invest in the ML/AI wave. Investors have rights if the money isn’t used they way they were told it would be. VCs raise money from fund managers (sovereign wealth funds for example) who also present a thesis to their stakeholders for how the money will be managed. Depe…

You make a good point about a VC's responsibility to stick to the plan they sold their LPs on. This could explain a lot of group-think and myopia in the industry. But in this particular case, it was a corporate VC, investing their own money.

That's even worse for you case, I suppose. In case of a usual VC funds it's about the returns, but corporate VCs also look for some potential synergy. They probably were looking for some ML startups that they could utilize later.

Re: You probably don't need AI/ML. You can make do with well written SQL scripts

#328

Post by peatmoss »

gaius wrote: post #129
halflings wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why use the term "AI" when the GP specifically used the less ambiguous Machine Learning? Machine Learning = statistics + linear algebra + computer science, mostly. Naive Bayes and Graphical Models are pure statistics, but they are mostly used for toy problems. Machine Learning scales these approaches to high dimensionality problems, and tasks where data is abundant.

If someone had something as basic as logistic regression or k-means clustering in a production app they are already ahead of the vast majority of ML practitioners

Gods, maybe I should stop telling people that I don’t have much in the way of a machine learning background.

Re: You probably don't need AI/ML. You can make do with well written SQL scripts

#329

Post by peatmoss »

freehunter wrote: post #202
halflings wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why use the term "AI" when the GP specifically used the less ambiguous Machine Learning? Machine Learning = statistics + linear algebra + computer science, mostly. Naive Bayes and Graphical Models are pure statistics, but they are mostly used for toy problems. Machine Learning scales these approaches to high dimensionality problems, and tasks where data is abundant.

Funny, I would consider many ML usages to be toy problems. Coming up with funny nonsensical Shakespeare plays or generating random Pantone colors or Pokémon names isn’t something you hear from Bayesian systems. That’s the domain of ML. Recommending related products is again simple statistical analysis. And I can generate a prediction based on past performance real easy with some SQL and a couple of “if” statements. J…

There are some methods that I don’t see used outside of the machine learning community, but there appears to be a fair degree of overlap in actual methods used between classical stats and machine learning.

Now, the biggest difference that I can see is that, within machine learning contexts, people are more concerned with the quality of the predictions than the interpretation of the independent variables. That’s not hard and fast, but it seems to be a common thread.

And for some problems, making a good prediction is really the right thing. In other cases, understanding the mechanisms you might use to effect an outcome is more important. Both are valid uses of statistical methods, depending on the problem.

I think within the realm of classical statistics, Bayesian methods’ super power is in being able to generate results that are much easier to communicate to lay people. Also Bayesian methods are nice if you want to do sensitivity analysis in a principled up front kind of way.

But I could imagine using those methods in an ML context even if they aren’t the current darlings of the methodological pantheon.

Re: You probably don't need AI/ML. You can make do with well written SQL scripts

#330

Post by nefitty »

gnicholas wrote: post #91
nefitty wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for your work on Beeline. I've been using it for several months and it definitely helps when diving into large Wikipedia articles, research papers, blog posts, etc. I found that it facilitates my reaching flow quickly when investigating large problems.

I'm curious to know where you heard about BeeLine a few months ago. We haven't had press in a long time, and most HNers who know about us found out from our Show HN way back in 2013.

I tried to track down what it was, and I think I stumbled across the name while looking at the ReadMe! Android app. It was pay to use, but I was eager to try it. Thankfully I found your /pasteboard tool and it helped me dominate wiki articles, whitepapers, research papers, etc. I was sold because of the pasteboard and moved to paying for the desktop chrome extension
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