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Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

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Re: Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

#321

Post by cup-of-tea »

endymi0n wrote: post #10

I used to have lots of problems getting up early and always championed later times. Growing up through my twenties, it was great seeing finally seeing more and more evidence for a later school start and I was hopeful for future teens. But it wasn't until my first kid that I finally understood that school doesn't start this early because it's good for the learning experience. It starts this early so parents can get th…

I did too, but I always assumed that if school started an hour later I'd go to bed an hour later and still struggle to get up. Why do you think it would be different?

Re: Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

#322

Post by __david__ »

stephen_g wrote: post #73
justherefortart wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go to bed earlier. I get up early and have since High School. All I do is make sure I go to bed at a reasonable hour. Going to work, lunch, home early is friggin awesome. Avoiding rush hour, saving me roughly 1 hour a day in traffic, is fantastic. Plus it gives me time to do any personal things in the early afternoon without affecting my work schedule.

This is exactly the kind of thing people with delayed sleep cycles hear all the time. There is a group of people for which your solution is impossible . Your circadian rhythm is compatible with that kind of schedule, and that's great. Some other people can't do that. I mean, I can wake up early regularly but eventually get into a sort of perpetual feeling just like jet-lag with symptoms of sleep deprivation (even whe…

I'm the same way. I've had a couple times in my life where things lined up with the rest of the world. Waking up in the 6 to 7am range and going to sleep before midnight. It was interesting to live on a "normal" schedule for a while. And also very convenient--normally all appointments happen happen after noon which halves the available window right off the bat. But my schedule always slides to my natural rhythm.

Re: Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

#323

Post by jimmy1 »

bluntfang wrote: post #301
jimmy1 wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For some, a bus simply doesn't exist. For others, there is legitimate concerns over the safety of their children -- I would not feel comfortable leaving my kindergartener or first grader walk to a bus stop almost half a mile away at essentially the wee hours of the morning when it is still dark outside. If you are the kid who lives at the first stop, sometimes your bus time is as early as 5:55. I would never force my…

What concerns make you feel uncomfortable? Do you feel uncomfortable leaving your children with close friends or family as well, since statistically most abuse occurs from someone in that group?

> What concerns make you feel uncomfortable?

1. It is a dimly lit area .

2. My 6 year old child is 6 year old. 6 year old things happen.

3. Pedos are a thing in America, unfortunately. FFS we have one as a president.

4. Child Trafficking is a also a thing, and a rising problem in America.

> Do you feel uncomfortable leaving your children with close friends or family as well, since statistically most abuse occurs from someone in that group?

1. It's about safety, which a small aspect of that is also being free from abuse, but not just abuse.

2. Just saying "statistics" and not linking the studies doesn't really say much, so this is a pretty meaningless statement to make in this situation. Most abuse occurs from close friends or family. That's a broad group. How about just friends? Just family? How does that differ if it is a migrant family? What about families of European descent? South American? Or is this your typical American experience? Again, meaningless without that context. Is it taking the average of all families in the United states? Well then we are skewed for outliers, because statistically speaking (don't you love that phrase now?) when abuse occurs in a household, it is much more likely to occur again and repeatedly in that same household. It's kind of like when people love to bring up crash and accident statistics. Statistically, if you take all the cars on the road with no regard to driving record, you, on average have a chance of getting into a car accident. But now take into account a safe driver, someone with no driving record of speeding, accidents, and the NHTSA accident and death statistics for those drivers plummet. Statistics are meaningless out of context. But I imagine you knew that.

Re: Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

#324

Post by jimmy1 »

blattimwind wrote: post #308
bluntfang wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What concerns make you feel uncomfortable? Do you feel uncomfortable leaving your children with close friends or family as well, since statistically most abuse occurs from someone in that group?

I believe the term for this phenomenon is "American angst".

Tell me more about my American angst. I am curious.

Re: Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

#325

Post by greenyoda »

learc83 wrote: post #298
WhompingWindows wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with that is rotating schedules is more economically efficient than loading all the class-types onto one time of the day. This would mean you need more PE teachers in the morning, more math teachers in the mid-day. There's a reason schools have multiple periods of each course, and that those periods rotate day-to-day. One interesting follow-up study could be to compare night-owls/morning-larks in rotating…

In most of the US, during elementary school, you generally have 1 teacher throughout the day that teaches all subjects, and you only leave to go to PE, art, or music once per day. Since the whole getting kids to school early so that someone can watch them while the parents work only really only applies to younger students, this isn't a problem.

> Since the whole getting kids to school early so that someone can watch them while the parents work only really only applies to younger students, this isn't a problem.

I'd guess that a significant fraction of teenagers would have difficulty waking up and getting to school on time if they didn't have a parent around to wake them up, feed them breakfast, push them out the door, etc. Not all teens are self-motivated and independent enough to do this on their own every single day.

Re: Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

#326

Post by greenyoda »

olympus wrote: post #137
jamescostian wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's a reason schools have multiple periods of each course, and that those periods rotate day-to-day Could you elaborate on this? What is the reason? Saying it's "more economically efficient" than grouping class types is something many of my teachers would disagree with, as they have lives they would love to get to outside of school (e.g. if a PE teacher gets out early in the morning, they can go to their second…

Because a single PE teacher can manage five rotating classes of twenty kids throughout the day. If kids didn't rotate periods, then all 100 kids would take PE at the same time. That would require extra PE teachers, because one teacher cannot manage 100 kids. Multiply this effect by every different area (music teachers, art teachers, etc.) and you have to hire a bunch of extra teachers which is a waste of money. Plus,…

> That would require extra PE teachers

It would also require a much larger gym and much more equipment. Same for all other subjects: many more musical instruments for music class, etc.

Re: Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

#327

Post by aqme28 »

riazrizvi wrote: post #223
patorjk wrote: post #6

> night owls were especially vulnerable, many appearing so chronically jet-lagged that they were unable to perform optimally at any time of day. I experienced this with an 8am biology class I was required to take. It wrecked my whole day. About 1/3 of the way through I just started skipping the class and then later getting notes of the lecture from a friend of mine. It ended up working dramatically well. I got an A,…

It’s hard to go to bed earlier because of interruptions and noise levels on campus, but if they can be managed, so can this problem. The idea that there is some innate biological problem is silly IMO. Young people have no unusual difficulty adjusting to time zones when traveling, but they do have computers and cell phones that are like brain cocaine and very difficult to self manage. I started scheduling shut off tim…

It's not silly. It is in fact a real thing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed_sleep_phase_disorder

Re: Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

#329

Post by sngz »

endymi0n wrote: post #10

I used to have lots of problems getting up early and always championed later times. Growing up through my twenties, it was great seeing finally seeing more and more evidence for a later school start and I was hopeful for future teens. But it wasn't until my first kid that I finally understood that school doesn't start this early because it's good for the learning experience. It starts this early so parents can get th…

failed my first period computer science class cause i just could not wake up for it.

Re: Poor Grades Tied to Class Times That Don’t Match Our Biological Clocks

#330

Post by JepZ »

stephen_g wrote: post #81
patorjk wrote: post #6

> night owls were especially vulnerable, many appearing so chronically jet-lagged that they were unable to perform optimally at any time of day. I experienced this with an 8am biology class I was required to take. It wrecked my whole day. About 1/3 of the way through I just started skipping the class and then later getting notes of the lecture from a friend of mine. It ended up working dramatically well. I got an A,…

My worst semester at University I had three 8am lectures... I knew I was a bit of a night owl, but at this point I didn't realise that I actually had a severe sleep disorder. I had just assumed that what people said (you just have to be disciplined, just go to be earlier, etc.) was potentially true, which was demoralising. It was actually pretty liberating to find out about differences in circadian rhythms. I still g…

So how did you solve your sleep disorder?
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