Wait, what's all this talk about how I could learn all the software technologies and get a job without a degree? I'm 32, highly skilled at algorithmic thinking, and studying to go into the tech industry. After reading this stuff, I want to just go back to doing 3D art. These people sound insufferable.
If you care about diversity, don't just hire from the same five schools
321–330 of 496 posts
Re: If you care about diversity, don't just hire from the same five schools
#322Earlier quoted context omitted.
> They just don't understand that some people like me, who can get into the (mostly private) elite schools choose to go to a "long tail" school for a variety of reasons (financial, family obligations, etc). Agreed--I was accepted everywhere I applied save one and I ended up going to the University of Maine. I've never hurt for work and I paid off my student loans by the age of 25. Google sniffs around now (aside: rec…
I wonder if there is a competitive advantage to be had there? UMaine is a pretty good system. When I retired, I taught math at UMF for a little while, so I got to see the system from the inside. UMF has one of the best teaching programs in the country. They even have a CS path that is judged well. Maybe recruiting at the small State universities is a potential edge?
Moneyball for college grads?
Re: If you care about diversity, don't just hire from the same five schools
#323Earlier quoted context omitted.
That would be to check that the degree is real. There are people who pretend to have one while they don't. It's normal due diligence, assuming it's after you are hired.
No, it wasn't. They also used to ask for high school transcripts if you didn't graduate college -- even for senior folks with decades of experience. Google's interviewing process used to be extremely absurd. They have reformed it somewhat since around 2013.
I never gave my high school transcripts to my Google recruiter. I worked there for four years as an SRE (2010-2014), without having graduated college.
I'll admit I was an outlier - Most people around me had fantastic college resumes (And I was very lucky to have them to learn from to shore up places where I had weaknesses). There may also have been a different hiring track and bar for SREs. I didn't find it a problem then - But, given the known fickleness of HR (At my office, our best recruiter was forced out because she spent too much time hanging out with engineers outside after-hours) and the way Google has gone downhill since then, I'd not be surprised if this was now the case
Re: If you care about diversity, don't just hire from the same five schools
#324Earlier quoted context omitted.
> They just don't understand that some people like me, who can get into the (mostly private) elite schools choose to go to a "long tail" school for a variety of reasons (financial, family obligations, etc). Agreed--I was accepted everywhere I applied save one and I ended up going to the University of Maine. I've never hurt for work and I paid off my student loans by the age of 25. Google sniffs around now (aside: rec…
I ended up at a no-name school because I got a terrible financial aid package at an elite school that I'd applied to early decision. So bailed and went to a state school for almost free.
Hey, at least you got a response. I got no return mail, not even a rejection letter. 3 tracked mails sent, 3 money orders totaling $120 (a princely sum for 1987), and no return mail. It was like a torture session picking up the mail at the box everyday (I had a break between high school classes, so I was the mailbox keyholder). Luckily, I also applied at the state school and got a pretty good package. Would have been better if my high school had filled out the paperwork on time. Makes me wish I didn't spend so many months studying the SAT & ACT because I was worried that we didn't have the classes that would cover the material at my high school.
Oh well, the local community college classes were only like $15 per credit hour for high school seniors (paid by the high school), so I started college as a sophomore. Gotta take the good with the bad I guess.
Re: If you care about diversity, don't just hire from the same five schools
#325It doesn't seem shortsighted to me to recruit only from top schools, because companies that hire graduates of Stanford or MIT or wherever can and do hire people after they've been in the workforce for a few years to prove themselves. I went to SUNY Albany and didn't even manage a 3.0 GPA, (missed it by _that_ much) and after a few years of working for a local company got contacted by recruiters from both Google and Amazon. They quickly realized I wasn't the sort of person they wanted, but there was no artificial barrier if I had been a genius who was tragically unable to attend a world-renowned school.
Re: If you care about diversity, don't just hire from the same five schools
#326Earlier quoted context omitted.
The problem in practice is that for every Emily or Anthony, there are a hundred students at 2nd and 3rd tier universities who, partly through their own failures and partly due to the unfortunate circumstances they’re in, are completely incompetent. So your implication is that the ratio of "competent" : "completely incompetent" for students coming from these schools is roughly... 2:100? I know you can't possibly mean…
> So your implication is that the ratio of "competent" : "completely incompetent" for students coming from these schools is roughly... 2:100? the parent can be correct with a ratio closer to 1:10 or 1:20, assuming the top schools churn out many more students than 2nd/3rd tier schools. Which is certainly the case depending on how to define 2nd/3rd tier. For ex parent's observation is probably spot on if you're compari…
For ex parent's observation is probably spot on if you're comparing MIT/CMU/Stanford/Berkeley to an arbitrarily chosen regional state campus.
I'll readily concur that students from top-tier schools are on average better than students from Podunk schools.
But (based on a wide sampling of data points) I don't see anything like a 1:100 ratio of "better", by any metric.
Re: If you care about diversity, don't just hire from the same five schools
#327Further proof that SV use of the word diversity is closer to a euphemism for assimulation. That is, diversity isn't a source for different backgrounds and experiences; but a biological signal to be optimized in order to maximize public perception, while ideas remain essentially the same.
Precisely. And how could SV be blamed for treating it as such? "Diversity" is not even contextually correlated with class consciousness, and we are only confusing each other when we attempt using it this way.
If enough political pressure is placed on SV over class concerns like this, where would the measurement come from? It took statistical evidence to get movement on the more biological concerns, but I'm not sure anecdote alone could have done that. Either way, the result will be little more than a website and some youtube videos.
Re: If you care about diversity, don't just hire from the same five schools
#328When I was at Google, I was asked if I wanted to make a recruiting trip to my alma mater. I was excited until I found out they were talking about my grad school where I got my MS, and not UB, a large state school where I got my BS. I told them I'd be happy to take a trip to recruit at UB. I got mostly crickets back from that reply. However, I ended up getting signed up for a series where they had a panel of a few HR…
You can see it both way.
My experience is that in any school / college / organisation, there is a distribution of smart / switched on / less switched on / absolute idiots. The difference between the better universities and less prestigious ones isn't that every student is excellent or bad (I have seen enough falling in the last category above in prestigious universities), just that there is a higher concentration of better students.
So it does make sense for companies to target these schools / universities, it's a matter of efficiency for their marketing efforts.
It doesn't make sense for companies to make it hard for non target schools as they are cutting themselves from lots of potentially excellent candidates (I suspect certain companies to automatically reject applications on their websites if the university isn't one of a list).
Re: If you care about diversity, don't just hire from the same five schools
#329Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Cherry picking your one Anthony per school is likely harder than showing up to Stanford where they picked cherries 4 years ago. An interesting idea: pulling from state schools isn't a problem because they're short on talent, it's a problem because recruiters and interviewers are bad at identifying talent. Colleges get a transcript, SATs, and essays to make a decision on, then do four years of further sorting. That'…
Of course, this means outsourcing the decision back in time, too. You're basically hiring for "the best students by from four years ago" the moment you factor the college into the question.
You're basically hiring for intelligence, but you're not allowed to ask about IQ, so you use bad proxies like the school someone attended.
Re: If you care about diversity, don't just hire from the same five schools
#330[deleted]