Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't think you're correct here. As I've understood the concept for something like a decade, PIPs are almost universally understood to be a soft form of firing. The correct response to receiving a PIP, probably in most SV companies, is to start looking for another job. It's easy to turn your own logic back around on you. Since it's a more-or-less open secret that most PIPs are part of managed termination, every com…
As a manager and employee this has also been my experience. it was even raised that effectively no employee survives a PIP due to the deliberate treatment of compensation (such as bonuses, which are immediately zeroed out) in the mandatory manager training by people who had been managers for 12, 15 years, much to the chagrin of the presenter from HR. In the company I work for now, we genuinely try and recover people…
Antisocial Coding: My Year at GitHub
321–330 of 572 posts
Re: Antisocial Coding: My Year at GitHub
#322Earlier quoted context omitted.
There's a book (I can't recall the name) written by a former HR professional on the actual function of HR in a corporation: a way to mitigate liability when firing people. That seems like the most plausible scenario given what I am reading from this blog post. If you were going to fire a well-known activist and you did not want to give away any ammunition for getting sued, there's a whole song and dance to make sure…
That sounds like an interesting book. I'd appreciate if you could let me know if you recollect the name. As someone who has poohpoohed the idea of a human resources department in a large company, I've almost done a 180 on it now that I have a small company of my own and I'd be very interested in reading some good books on the utility and function of the organisation in a large company.
Re: Antisocial Coding: My Year at GitHub
#323Earlier quoted context omitted.
> or because they shut down the conversation at some point. That's the vibe I got from her post (that the conversation just stopped at a certain point), but that's really my point; in adult, human interactions, if you behave in ways that people find unacceptable, people can and will at one point simply say, "I've had enough" and shut down further dialogue because they do not find communicating with you to be construc…
You're correct about this, so, let me be clearer: In my experience, they ghost; or they start ghosted. Yes, there's a point at which you're completely justified in shutting down further dialogue because you do not find the communication constructive or productive. That point is after you have said that you do not find the communication constructive or productive. (It sounds like your impression from the OP is that th…
I've always wondered the same, after all, doesn't it take two people to have an argument or misunderstanding? And why is simply stating outright what the issue is considered unspeakable, is it some sort of an ego/pride thing?
I just don't get how people behave, but I'm pretty sure I'm the odd one out.
Re: Antisocial Coding: My Year at GitHub
#324There's a couple of issues that stand out to me: Github is engaging in risky behaviour by reaching out to individuals (specifically activists) for hire explicitly on the basis of "diversity" and trying to incorporate those individuals in a highly merit-based environment. Secondly, Coraline seems to think that human relationships are a one way street: that she is entitled to be direct and even confrontational or insen…
This one way street also extends to the way Coraline's accomplishments at GitHub are presented in the article. There's all of this talk about all of the code she pushed and all of the popular features she wrote, but there's no context as to whether or not those things were the metrics by which her performance was being measured, e.g. what her management was expecting her to do. So when the negative review is mentione…
> My overall review was a "Does Not Meet Expectations." I was shocked and upset. A bad review out of the blue was not something that I had experienced before. I thought I had good rapport with my manager, and that if there was a problem that we would have been addressing it at our weekly meetings. In my mind this was a serious management failure, but there was apparently nothing I could do about it.
Emphasis on "addressing it at our weekly meetings".
This seems to be far more of a management failure than Coraline's failure.
Re: Antisocial Coding: My Year at GitHub
#325While GitHub seemingly handled her employment poorly, this person sounds horrible to work with: >Was politely calling out a data scientist on a problematic and transphobic survey answer a demonstration of lack of empathy? How presumptuous. Ever thought that maybe the person putting it together didn't know any better? What does framing oneself as the victim accomplish here? In addition, this is hilariously ironic give…
> I was very disappointed at this 101 mistake, and sadly opened an issue referencing the question. The body of my issue read: > "'Transgender' is not a gender. Transgender people may be male, female, gender queer, non-binary... If you want to know if a survey respondent is transgender, you need to explicitly ask that question." She was disappointed. She explained her problem with the survey in a non-judgmental way- "…
Some data scientist made a small survey faux pas, and now they're being called out in a lengthy blogpost about how bad and un-inclusive the company was to work for.
How can anyone work with this person without feeling like they're standing on eggshells? How must the woman who wrote the survey who was just doing her job feel today if she reads this?
Re: Antisocial Coding: My Year at GitHub
#326Earlier quoted context omitted.
Didn't know about that, but abrasiveness like that is really unfortunate. It makes real progress harder because it means people dig in on views that maybe they shouldn't.
Looks like she wasn't even aware of the project, but instead saw it on a person's twitter profile and went to its github repo to get that person fired. In a way, she's doing the exact same thing, to others, that she is claiming github did to her.
Re: Antisocial Coding: My Year at GitHub
#327If you're ever put on a PIP, get out -- it's a sign someone in the company doesn't want you there. I've never heard of a PIP working out and both the company and employee being happy -- maybe you only hear about the bad cases, but a PIP often seems to me like a cover your ass plan on the part of the company. They want to get rid of a person, but they're afraid of getting sued, so a PIP is a way to document why a pers…
"I've never heard of a PIP working out and both the company and employee being happy " At least where i've worked, they work out about 50% of the time. That tracks with the PIP's i've been involved in. I can also give you anecdotes if you like, but i'm not sure you care. "This practice seems pretty common in California, but given California is an at-will employment state, I'm not even sure why. " I'd agree plenty of…
Re: Antisocial Coding: My Year at GitHub
#328Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Hi cholantesh! Just saw your new survey. Looks great! Hey, have you seen the HRC's recommendations for surveying gender? I've used their guidelines in the past. Very helpful! http://www.hrc.org/resources/collecting-transgender-inclusiv... TLDR: They suggest splitting the gender question into two parts. As you know, this is a super important issue for me. Progress! Exciting! If you're busy, I'll make a pull request.…
Why so much sugarcoating? Feedback was straightforward. I didn't see any aggressive words. Most of out PRs are to the point. Sometimes the big problem I find is that in some companies people are just scared of each other that they fail to communicate. Best places where I worked: people were to the point, they had healthy debates even with strong opinions.
Because empathy is important to communicating effectively. You're looking at the words, but you're not looking at phrasing and tone, which are just as important.
Try this exercise: read the sentence out loud to yourself. Taking a line out of Myers-Briggs, does it sound more perceptive or judging, to you, when read aloud?
To me it sounds judging, as if Coraline already has pre-conceived notions about the person she is communicating with. At the very least, it sounds unnecessarily defensive. The wording is definite, with no room for discussion. In fact, all I see in that wording is a mini "well, actually" lecture.
The reality is that she doesn't know if this was an intentional or unintentional oversight. People leave things out, forget to finish sentences, paint in broad strokes and fine-tune later. From the description, this likely wasn't in its final stages. Maybe it was going to get changed, or maybe it wasn't, but you need to start from the idea that the person on the other end of the sentence also wants the best results.
It's a nice idea to think that people should say whatever they want as long as it's the objective truth, but humans are humans, which means they are subjective and have feelings. I find that people are much more effective workers when they are attentive to the feelings of others.
Another phrasing which is probably just as effective, much less aggressive, and only slightly more wordy:
"Have you considered how people of different gender identities might engage with this question? Transgender people might be confused if they identify as both male (or female) and trans. Perhaps we can find a way to make this question a little less ambiguous for this class of people?"
Sure, the proposed solution is not directly in that sentence-- but that's kind of the point. You have to get on the same page before you start throwing out answers at people. Maybe the data scientist already knows this but just didn't communicate effectively-- otherwise you end up dangerously close to "well actually"ing someone who already knows the thing you're telling them.
In fact, to me, the weirdest part of the article is how ironic it is to see Coraline be so obtusely unaware of how unempathetic this kind of phrasing is, since she is so vocal about it on Twitter. It definitely strikes me as slightly hypocritical to see people arguing that we should be allowed to get straight to the point of a technical argument without any fluff or nicety. I believe this was the exact opposite argument being made from the same camp when Code of Conduct discussions were being had.
Re: Antisocial Coding: My Year at GitHub
#329Earlier quoted context omitted.
[flagged] means users flagged it. Since a lot of people are disagreeing about that and we always try to take guidance from the community, I've turned the flags off on this submission and reduced the software penalty formerly known as the flamewar detector. But FWIW this goes against my better judgment—this thread isn't as civil or substantive as several of the recent ones on related issues have been (I mean in relati…
It mightn't be as substantive or civil, but I've learned more from this HN thread than most. Reading some of the comments here confirmed for me that this woman is on to something. People are claiming that there's more to the story, or that she must be a bitch/bad at social interactions (with no evidence worth mentioning and despite a respectful and genuinely empathetic writing style). In fairness to GitHub, there may…
It's not that your observations are wrong, it's that there are many other observations you'd also need to account for before drawing a conclusion about "the comment section here". Few people have the patience to do this, especially not when the data start to go outside a narrative that seems to make sense. (Where by few I mean statistically no one, including me.) Actually it's the other way around: nearly all of us start with a narrative and then see the community through it. This feels obviously right and there's plenty of data you can point to to support (a.k.a. 'prove') it; the trouble is that there's also plenty of data you can point to to 'prove' the opposite—and people do. What's really going on is that the community is large and complex enough to 'prove' any view you bring to it, and so everyone is simply reading back out what they just encoded in, by weighting some things differently than others. (Given enough things to weight you can encode anything.) This is why people so adamantly say such contradictory things about HN, and I'm sure that happens even more with still larger systems.
IMO this is also why there's a large measure of what you call 'projection/delusion' going on on every side of the internet wars. I'm not sure how to fix that but I'm pretty sure it can't be fixed by the triumph of the good side over the bad side, however you draw that line. The most interesting thing that has happened on HN recently has been the appearance of new forms of dialogue across those lines. Those threads still aren't great but at least it's a sign of something new that isn't just predestined conflagration. Another welcome sign is that in some of these contexts, more women have been commenting than usually do. Those are the kind of developments we're looking to support on HN, in the hope that more interesting and substantive forms of discourse can emerge here. Flamewars are certainly not that.
When we make moderation calls that don't seem to make sense, that's probably why. We're trying to optimize for one thing long-term: intellectual curiosity and substantive online discussion, a problem that turns out to have many counterintuitive aspects. But we're not trying to impose a regime that the community doesn't want and are happy to reverse decisions we get wrong along the way.