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Uber faces criminal probe over software used to evade authorities

reuters.com

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Re: Uber faces criminal probe over software used to evade authorities

#321

Post by eropple »

stepitup wrote: post #46

What's really strange is that I bet a good percente of the people reading this comment will know exactly what I mean when I refer to a: "Startup that employs mafia tactics and forces businesses to pay a protection fee, or actively fucks them up and attempts to hurt them." Why aren't the authorities going over the ACTUAL, honest-to-god mafia startup? Sorry, I realize it's off topic here, but my first thought when I re…

Yelp allegedly--and while I believe it it has not been established--burying positive reviews for non-advertisers isn't a crime (in the general case; your jurisdiction may disagree, but extortion etc. are, to my layman understanding, almost strictly limited to threats of violence). On the other hand, Uber is, if the allegations are true (and they've copped to Grayball), obstructing justice on behalf of third parties. This is an actual crime.

If you believe that Yelp should be barred from preferential reviewing in your jurisdiction, talk to a legislator. (I would agree with you and vote to that effect in my own.)

Re: Uber faces criminal probe over software used to evade authorities

#322

Post by memmcgee »

chrisper wrote: post #268
defen wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know, I remember posting on this site years ago that the Uber CEO was a terrible person (Based on a few interactions I had with him back when UberCab had about 5 employees) and being told by some prominent people that I was wrong. This was back when YC was talking about how "niceness" was a key quality in successful founders. Feels good to have my instincts vindicated.

I agree with you. 2 or 3 years ago I posted how I dislike Uber as they are shady and unethical and how some of the drivers do unethical stuff as well. Got downvoted every time because "cab drivers don' do that?"

Exactly. People like Uber for "breaking the taxi cab monopoly"... by building their own monopoly.

Re: Uber faces criminal probe over software used to evade authorities

#323

Post by avar »

gotothedoctor wrote: post #242
orblivion wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just for the sake of discussion: What about Silk Road? I would say that's a legitimate case of a company (of sorts) engaging in civil disobedience. Ross Ulbricht was ideologically motivated. I've heard some rumors about Travis' ideology. Maybe he's similar. (He named his company Uber, maybe he's some sort of Nietzschean?)

You would be incorrect. Humans, not companies, engage in civil disobedience. Regardless, whether its Ross, Travis or anyone else, why would or should ideological motivation be relevant to whether or not any given act is legal or how it should be punished? When libertarians, for whatever reason, choose to start businesses in CA, they are explicitly consenting to our government & to obeying our democratically enacted l…

I was under the impression that Silk Road wasn't a company but a private website run by Ross. Reading over the Wikipedia article and the indictment I can't find any mention of it being incorporated.

Although the indictment mentions at one point that he had an employee, but he may have been paying him privately and not as part of a corporate structure.

Does that change anything vis-a-vis the argument you're making with regards to civil disobedience?

My reading of your comments is that a corporation doesn't have certain rights private individuals have. That makes sense, but does your argument still hold if Silk Road is a purely private website without any corporate structure?

1. https://ia600406.us.archive.org/17/items/gov.uscourts.mdd.23...

Re: Uber faces criminal probe over software used to evade authorities

#324

Post by CaptainZapp »

DannyBee wrote: post #72
xixi77 wrote: post #45

What exactly part of this is criminal? I mean, isn't any business free to discriminate and refuse service to anyone they like (for example government employees, hackers, or Democrats), as long as they are not in one of several protected categories like sex/race/national origin/etc.? Or is this violating consumer privacy laws when CC info is used this way?

"What exactly part of this is criminal? " The part where you commit obstruction of justice by identifying which people are cops and hiding the law-breaking from them while you know they are investigating. (and you do it because the law-breaking is benefiting you). Uber would have been significantly better off, legally, actually and clearly refusing service instead of deliberately misleading them. If the cops come by,…

  If the cops come by, and ask you where your friend stashed the murder weapon, and you refuse to talk to them - probably defensible
Absolutely defensible. You are under no obligation to talk to law enforcement and as a matter of fact it's highly advisable that you don't say anything at all until you have a competent lawyer present.

I'm not a lawyer, but Ken White of Popehat is and he has a lot to say on the subject:

https://www.popehat.com/tag/shut-up/

Specific insight why you should really shut the fuck up until competent counsel is present is provided in this post:

https://www.popehat.com/2011/03/18/just-a-friendly-reminder-...

Edited to add this other relevant link:

https://www.popehat.com/2007/10/26/shutupshutupshutupshutup/

Re: Uber faces criminal probe over software used to evade authorities

#325

Post by cheatdeath »

naskwo wrote: post #293

Last weekend, I visited Hamburg with my wife. I was surprised when I was told that I couldn't catch an Uber. However, on each German taxi (you know, the beige ones) there was a sticker prompting me to download the "EUTaxi" (or similarly named) app, which I did. Brilliant. I was able to summon a car within minutes, and this app also allows for paying via the app. Uber's biggest threat is, IMO, the creation of a well-w…

Probably myTaxi (https://de.mytaxi.com/en/index.html).

Re: Uber faces criminal probe over software used to evade authorities

#326

Post by memmcgee »

npizzolato wrote: post #281
terribleplan wrote: post #34

Ok, what's the over under on the people who coded this getting used as scapegoats? I'm at about 40/60 against. Morality and legality in software is a massive frontier we hardly pause to think about.

A real criminal investigation probably isn't going to be satisfied with the lowly coder. If this ends up going all the way, I would expect people high up to be punished.

In an ideal world that would be the case. But in reality, unless you hurt the elites like Enron did, you'll probably get off just fine.

Re: Uber faces criminal probe over software used to evade authorities

#327

Post by laser »

naskwo wrote: post #293

Last weekend, I visited Hamburg with my wife. I was surprised when I was told that I couldn't catch an Uber. However, on each German taxi (you know, the beige ones) there was a sticker prompting me to download the "EUTaxi" (or similarly named) app, which I did. Brilliant. I was able to summon a car within minutes, and this app also allows for paying via the app. Uber's biggest threat is, IMO, the creation of a well-w…

I generally agree with your sentiment, but just to give another perspective I thought I should point out that there's a significant difference between those that can afford to travel to Europe and hail a ride from a "professionally licensed driver", and those that can afford to spend $3.41* to pool home from Boston to Cambridge at 2:30am on a Thursday night, with a guy returning home from work looking to make a few extra bucks, and three pickups along the way happy to get home affordably. Those of the latter type are far more numerous, and far more harmed by the increased prices due to regulation of ride sharing markets, than the typical financially well-off hackernewsian would generally be aware of.

* VC dollars still subsidize Uber, but even as an operational whole to < 20% of the true cost of rides. On the other hand, the equivalent taxi would cost at least $12-15.

Re: Uber faces criminal probe over software used to evade authorities

#328

Post by memmcgee »

bogositosius wrote: post #86
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nationwide? Yes (at least arguably). At that point, it's a nationwide conspiracy. (Note: I do not know if this probe is about more than one city. If it's only about Portland, my argument does not hold.)

The mafia-like, protectionist taxi regulations should be considered the true conspiracy, IMHO.

The taxi cabs aren't all one company though. Most taxi cab companies operate in one city. Additionally, lobbying is not a federal crime.

Re: Uber faces criminal probe over software used to evade authorities

#329

Post by ScalaNovice »

stepitup wrote: post #46

What's really strange is that I bet a good percente of the people reading this comment will know exactly what I mean when I refer to a: "Startup that employs mafia tactics and forces businesses to pay a protection fee, or actively fucks them up and attempts to hurt them." Why aren't the authorities going over the ACTUAL, honest-to-god mafia startup? Sorry, I realize it's off topic here, but my first thought when I re…

I'm guessing you're referring to google over the Hugo Barra incident? Not a big fan of google for using open source as purely a PR stunt and not releasing gmail as open source but I don't think Google forces anyone to pay a protection fee though.

I don't think Google is so bad. They're just doing what's good for their investors.

Re: Uber faces criminal probe over software used to evade authorities

#330

Post by memmcgee »

bogositosius wrote: post #263
TheCoelacanth wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole point of RICO is to allow the feds to intervene when the criminal organization is too large and powerful for local governments to be able to effectively prosecute them. This is exactly what RICO was designed for.

Which local governments have tried mounting a substantive case and failed?

I don't know... Maybe the local governments that were blocked from investigating by Greyball?
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