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Farmers look for ways to circumvent tractor software locks

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Re: Farmers look for ways to circumvent tractor software locks

#321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how much more the bunghole of the RIAA/MPAA would tighten up with DRM if it wasn't even illegal to copy stuff they publish with reckless regard. You'd basically have to outlaw DRM too, or everyone would just make their stuff unusable/uncopyable.

Hah, are you kidding? Even the most advanced VM based protections are routinely bypassed by crackers. Things which have an analog hole vulnerability are just too easy. The only way something like that would happen is a big shift in hardware towards tamper resistant stuff with hardware crypto. And if all the RE work on that tamper resistant hardware could be done in public things would get... very fun.

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Re: Farmers look for ways to circumvent tractor software locks

#322
post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I should say that I respect and appreciate your response. Certainly I can't truly think through the universal problem space, as no one can. I also feel that at least my government (in the US) is so owned by corporations and the wealthy that it no longer represents my interests, and I tend to reject any solutions that endow in that government certain powers. As such I would disagree with intellectual property on…

> It is only the legal means of obfuscation that prevents us as humans from making every book ever written freely available to all people. I would bet that most writers do not want to make their books freely available. If they did how would they pay the rent? And would they be able to even write them then?

I think you missed a critical part of my comment - I see eliminating IP laws as critical to reducing the cost of living to zero. In this zero cost of living world, no one needs to pay rent.

In reality I believe zero is a worthy target but difficult to achieve, so I really expect us to hit "very low". In that world, the cost of living is so low that we can voluntarily support others at very little cost to ourselves, and with a minimum of Love for our fellow humans, those with income can support those without. In that world, authors are more free than ever to write what they truly believe. They have no publishers to please nor masses to target, and can write what they deem most valuable to write.

Re: Farmers look for ways to circumvent tractor software locks

#323

I don't like the idea that we have to pass laws to force companies to make a better product. Why can't a company take the initiative and grab all the customers who value this?

You must not know any farmers or ranchers. John Deere gets more love than Ford, Chevy, and Dodge combined. I haven't ever met someone who has sat in a tractor without a positive opinion of this company. Agriculture is a very technical industry, so most of these people are quite well-educated, but that education doesn't usually include software. As soon as someone in this field wraps their head around DRM and its cons…

> I haven't ever met someone who has sat in a tractor without a positive opinion of this company.

Then you must not know very many farmers or ranchers because Case IH(formerly International) vs. Deere is a very big thing in those circles. It is very much a rivalry with typically no overlap much like the Ford/Chevy/Dodge rivalries.

Re: Farmers look for ways to circumvent tractor software locks

#324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I'm summarizing my engineer friends and former colleagues within John Deere Power Systems.

Even worse ;)

:) I don't think they much care. In particular, they freely express plenty of criticism about various company practices; I doubt they'd have bias about this issue in particular.

Re: Farmers look for ways to circumvent tractor software locks

#325
post #227

I have the feeling that somehow the actual need has been put aside for phylosophical (or Open Source, etc.) reasonings (nice but not the original issue). More or less what the good farmers are asking for (which is not about the code, the kernel or whatever, they are not "hackers" as much as the authorized JD technicians are not computer experts or programmers or software engineers) is just access to the "database" of…

>ONLY available through a local visit of a MS agent (9 to 5 , Monday to Friday) at a cost of (say) US$ 100.00/hour + US$ 1.00/mile

Microsoft really should adopt this approach to customer service. It's been very successful for John Deere obviously, so for MS it should be even more successful. They could increase their profitability greatly. Who cares if it pisses off customers? They're not going anywhere; they'll just pay up and gripe about it. There is literally no reason MS should not treat their customers this way. They're missing out on a lot of revenue here.

Re: Farmers look for ways to circumvent tractor software locks

#326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the software was open source, it would be modified and tuned to maximize power output, and would belch huge plumes of particulates, CO, and NOx. How do you balance openness against the public good of controlling this pollution? These are, perhaps, the primary reasons that engine control software is so complicated these days, on diesels and gas engines.

Make such modifications illegal and require regular checks.

Do even better than that: have the government do random checks with drones, and if someone's found to be violating, seize their entire farm. Do make sure to include a provision to make sure they weren't non-compliant by accident (equipment failure not caused by illegal modification, or perhaps due to illegal action by manufacturer a la VW).

If you make the penalties for non-compliance devastatingly high, then very few people will risk it.

Also, companies found to be intentionally non-complaint like VW should simply be seized, not just fined. The executives should be tried criminally and imprisoned, and the rest of the company seized and sold.

Re: Farmers look for ways to circumvent tractor software locks

#327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, people seriously underestimate the damage done by carrying over the near-absolute monopolies granted by copyright, which were originally intended for superfluous creative works. A good compromise may be that software is only eligible for legal protections like copyright if it's source is registered with the Copyright Office, and then the scope of that copyright would limit the commercial resell for 10 years, but…

Just a thought experiment: what if copyright could only be assigned to individuals and not companies?

I'd like to do the same with patents.

Re: Farmers look for ways to circumvent tractor software locks

#328
post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, people seriously underestimate the damage done by carrying over the near-absolute monopolies granted by copyright, which were originally intended for superfluous creative works. A good compromise may be that software is only eligible for legal protections like copyright if it's source is registered with the Copyright Office, and then the scope of that copyright would limit the commercial resell for 10 years, but…

> Yes, people seriously underestimate the damage done by carrying over the near-absolute monopolies granted by copyright, which were originally intended for superfluous creative works. Explain the use of "superfluous" in that sentence, please. > One example: copies of content kept in RAM qualify as infringing copies under the Copyright Act. Judges have been lamenting that in their decisions since the first one, but t…

Early disclaimer: IANAL.

>Explain the use of "superfluous" in that sentence, please.

Meaning works that were thought to enhance culture, or, as the Constitution puts it "Science and the Useful Arts", but which were not strictly necessary for anything to function.

Patents were the separate mechanism of intellectual property intended to protect inventions. Patents are correspondingly much weaker and required a disclosure of the invention's mechanisms.

In cyberspace, unfortunately, all of our inventions qualify for copyright (as well as patents) because they're expressed through the "creative work" of software code. This has left us in a situation where a critical component that we depend on every day may stop functioning, and there's nothing anyone can do about it, since practically just thinking about something is a copyright violation these days.

We should update the law so that software is eligible for IP protection only when its source code has been published, similar to the mechanism in place for patents, which requires the mechanisms of the invention to be disclosed.

>Can you give some examples of judges lamenting that?

You're right that I overstated the critical reception of the RAM copy doctrine. I was referring to this section of the judgment which put it forth in MAI v. Peak:

>However, it is generally accepted that the loading of software into a computer constitutes the creation of a copy under the Copyright Act. We recognize that these authorities are somewhat troubling since they do not specify that a copy is created regardless of whether the software is loaded into the RAM, the hard disk or the read only memory (“ROM”). However, since we find that the copy created in the RAM can be “perceived, reproduced, or otherwise communicated,” we hold that the loading of software into the RAM creates a copy under the Copyright Act.

The Court acknowledges that the concept of when the copy materializes was not well established and calls this "somewhat troubling", but eventually determines that due to the possibility of the content being "communicated" whilst stored in RAM, it should qualify as a copy.

For background, MAI v. Peak was a case about whether a technician had made an infringing copy by running a program installed on a user's PC in the course of maintenance. The Court ruled that since loading a program into RAM is a copy, he had created an infringing copy.

The exception added for computer programs arose from this case, but did not address the RAM copy doctrine. It makes an explicit exemption for "(c)Machine Maintenance or Repair." only. If you're not maintaining or repairing your friend's machine, but you still load up a game he's installed, you've technically made an infringing copy, just as this computer tech had, because you are not doing it for "maintenance or repair".

The RAM copy doctrine is inherently offensive. It makes equal sense to say that the copy created in your brain from the image reflected onto your retinas is an infringing copy, and there's actually a strong case that the image in your human memory is an infringing copy because it is stored in a fixed medium that can be communicated (after proper transformation, i.e., conversion into a sketch; just as a RAM copy requires transformation from numbers-in-memory into something that is displayed on a screen). The RAM copy is no different, except that a computer's "eyes" are not respected; what should matter is what happens with the copies that exist outside of RAM in an actually fixed or tangible form, the end result of the transitory memory "copy".

Neither RAM nor optical nor memorial copies should qualify for infringement on their own due to their transitory nature; you can even make this argument under current law, which requires copies to be fixed and permanent. A clarification is badly needed, correcting the Ninth Circuit's poor judgment in this case.

The real-world outcome is that the precedent set in Feist v. Rural Telco is no longer effective in cyberspace. It's impossible to open a web page and copy the bare, uncopyrightable facts out of it, because the necessary pre-requisite of downloading the exact compilation of facts, which is copyrightable, creates an infringing copy, which you could be successfully sued over even if your end product was not sufficiently derivative to be a derived work under copyright law, and even if the "white pages" never touch your disk; just using your computer to look at/read them without consent is illegal, since the act of loading content into a computer creates a copy.

Another contrived example under RAM copy doctrine: if you've downloaded a song illegally, you are not on the hook for only the copy on your hard disk, but the number of plays, since each one is a distinct infringing copy created by your computer loading the music into its memory repeatedly.

Follow-up question: if the program loads and unloads an unlicensed resource several times in the course of its operation, is each instance a new infringing copy?

There have been several scholarly articles written by actually qualified people (I'm not a lawyer) about how to resolve the issues incumbent in the RAM copy doctrine, so they can cover it. But this is just one example of several legal problems limiting participation and competition in the virtual market. We need to add law to fix this and similar problems.

Re: Farmers look for ways to circumvent tractor software locks

#329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a tangent but I'm all for calling out hipocracy. Author should've used Creative Commons or public domain.

I just mentioned above (after your comment) that it's just an oversight. That text was built in to the Ghost template I used and I never bothered to change it. But I absolutely will change it to Creative Commons next time I make updates to the site.

Great! Glad it was just an oversight. Creative Commons also has helpful descriptions on their website to simplify picking your preferred license. Will make it easier.

Re: Farmers look for ways to circumvent tractor software locks

#330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Your comparison to Tesla doesn't get better just by repeating it a few times Your hand-waving also does precisely zero. > If your Tesla breaks down you wont have any problem to get a comparable replacement car What does this have to do with anything? I want to work on something I bought; isn't that what we're arguing about? The availability of a replacement is a straw man. Why are you apologizing for other companie…

> I want to work on something I bought; isn't that what we're arguing about? This might be what you are arguing about, but then you are in the wrong discussion. Farmers complain that they have to wait for an authorized JD mechanic to fix even the most simple stuff. And during harvest time they just can't wait.

>but then you are in the wrong discussion

Maybe you are.

>Farmers complain that they have to wait for an authorized JD mechanic to fix even the most simple stuff

Actually, it says in the article that they can fix simple things.

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