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Big Tech Company Salaries Are Hurting Startups

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Re: Big Tech Company Salaries Are Hurting Startups

#321

Post by comstock »

beisner wrote: post #245
comstock wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Increasing equity is great, but in general my view is that increased equity does two things: 1. It compensates for the increased risk of working for a startup (you don't have as much runway as google, might fail to raise your next round). 2. It gives the employee a stake in the company, and aligns their interests with making the company successful. I.e. Not just doing whatever they're told, failing to raise potential…

I think it can depend on the size of the operation, and your mindset. If I'm employee #100 at a well-funded startup, I'd tend to agree with you and value equity as a risk adjusting factor. But if I'm employee #5, I probably would take a pay cut in exchange for a significant chunk of equity - if I was even considering such a risky operation, I probably wouldn't be in a place in my life where job security was especiall…

If you think it would be an interesting experience, or like the people, or think it's a fun problem it makes sense to take a pay cut.

If you're thinking increased equity will compensate for reduced salary in the vast majority of cases that doesn't make financial sense.

Re: Big Tech Company Salaries Are Hurting Startups

#322

Post by jessaustin »

tutufan wrote: post #296
jessaustin wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very few people fly to Kansas. There isn't really a major airport in the state.

Technically true, though everyone on this board thinks Kansas City is in Kansas...

Yeah they named the whole state after some other state's second-best city.

Re: Big Tech Company Salaries Are Hurting Startups

#324

Post by kudokatz »

zerr wrote: post #318
ashark wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their attention span for products and tendency to half-ass things that aren't highly visible (Android SDK and documentation comes to mind) supports this notion. It's exactly what I'd expect from a company hiring 100% A players but needing 95% B-C work—avoid and shirk until you can land on a greenfield project, work on that until it's boring, then jump ship to another company or a more interesting project, because god…

Being/becoming good at CS-riddles (i.e. passing Google-like interviews) doesn't necessary correlate to being A player on the real job. So one might say Google employs a lot of B/C players (who just passed their interviews) where being A is a requirement for the job.

Yes, this. Also, if you look at the source of the output that is publicly available, you find that the overall quality is actually much lower than one might expect if they were hiring people that were truly great at making software more of an "art" rather than a blob shoved out the door that passed QA testing.

Re: Big Tech Company Salaries Are Hurting Startups

#325

Post by kudokatz »

jonnathanson wrote: post #176
phil21 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you almost played this right, with one caveat. You should have taken the flight to the west coast and done the interview, with minimal (hour or two) to no prep at all. Why? First, you never know. Maybe they legitimately want your skillset - why fake up some crap you hate for a job you don't need? Second, you'll get practice taking interviews in a very low pressure situation. Worst-case they laugh at you and y…

I think the worst case is a little hairier than that. Companies keep records of their applicants and interview feedback. I'm dramatically oversimplifying, but your feedback will spell out two things in isolation: your fit for the role you applied for, and your fit for the company in general. If you do badly enough not to clear that second hurdle, you're going to have a hard time getting future interviews at the compa…

> So I wouldn't recommend winging it in a Big 5 interview unless you're comfortable with the possibility that a bad performance might blackball you there.

After going through "interview training" for one, they do blacklist people. But it's probably not as bad as you think. Also, even after getting pushed out of one org, another was extremely happy to offer me a job years later despite having all the info on me (even if I turned it down).

Individual hiring managers can have a good amount of discretion.

Re: Big Tech Company Salaries Are Hurting Startups

#326

Post by kudokatz »

AlexC04 wrote: post #293
phil21 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you almost played this right, with one caveat. You should have taken the flight to the west coast and done the interview, with minimal (hour or two) to no prep at all. Why? First, you never know. Maybe they legitimately want your skillset - why fake up some crap you hate for a job you don't need? Second, you'll get practice taking interviews in a very low pressure situation. Worst-case they laugh at you and y…

Failure really hurts me on a psychological level. I don't have any interest in half assing stuff. If I can't crush it, I don't want to play. The cost of the flight & hotel is pretty trivial in the grand scheme of things. By that I mean relative to stuff like going to a place you want to see, the value of spending a vacation day, etc... I do agree that the meeting smart people is fun... but the full on crash-and-burn…

> If I can't crush it, I don't want to play.

It's really worth it, IMO. There's really a HUGE element of luck: from the personality and opinions of those interviewing you to the questions they happen to choose that day. Seriously - internalize that and just try it out!

Re: Big Tech Company Salaries Are Hurting Startups

#327

Post by kudokatz »

tutufan wrote: post #294
st3v3r wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Of course it means a lower salary." Why? How does the value of the work I provide change based on where I'm located? Is an if statement somehow different if done in the Bay Area vs the Midwest?

What does the value of your work have to do with your salary, though?

> What does the value of your work have to do with your salary, though?

Delivering more value can justify more compensation. But unless you're on contract for a percentage of the take, you don't necessarily get compensated based on output. Most software people get paid based on market rates which can be a lot lower than the actual value they deliver on the high-end--they're paid their "replacement cost" rather than per value added.

Re: Big Tech Company Salaries Are Hurting Startups

#328

Post by kudokatz »

Retric wrote: post #26
Arizhel wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But there are plenty of great engineers that don't want to work at those companies for various reasons. There are plenty of great engineers that want to work remotely and don't have that option at the large companies. They don't have that option at startups either, because the startups all want people who'll be at the office 18 hours a day with "team spirit". I think this article is useless. Startups are only for pe…

The odds of getting a six figure payout at a startup is lower than the odds of getting a six figure annual salary at bigco. Which dramatically changes the math. The real startup appeal is you don't need to be great or play the game, you just need to be lucky.

> The odds of getting a six figure payout at a startup is lower than the odds of getting a six figure annual salary at bigco.

Well-funded, small start-ups that are high growth can still get to 80% of "bigco" salaries--well into six figures. If you are fine on a bit less (which is still a LOT more than many make), then you can also get more freedom and a few lottery tickets thrown in.

Some even build a "diversified portfolio" out of those tickets.

Re: Big Tech Company Salaries Are Hurting Startups

#329

Post by throwaway2016a »

poikniok wrote: post #312
throwaway2016a wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately it is #2. I am underpaid by over 75%. The average on the team is under by about 30 - 50%... so not only am I underpaid I am underpaid quite a lot more than others in the company. I do, however, have quite a bit more stock options. And the CEO from what I understand went two years without a paycheck. But he is independently wealthy (I am not). I stay for various personal reasons. Reasons that the other p…

Honestly this sounds terrible. From what you have said it seems fairly clear that you are being exploited by the CEO / others. And what does it even mean that the CEO (who presumably owns a large portion of the company) went without pay for two year when he is independently wealthy? You sound quite intelligent so just think about it, if he was paying himself a salary it would just be transferring money from his bank…

Thank you for your concern. I am well aware of the situation... I am actively considering options.

Re: Big Tech Company Salaries Are Hurting Startups

#330

Post by HelloNurse »

thr0waway1239 wrote: post #58
krschultz wrote: post #7

If you are a startup and are trying to compete head to head with Google / FB / Amazon / Apple / Microsoft for the same people, you are going to have a really hard time recruiting. But there are plenty of great engineers that don't want to work at those companies for various reasons. There are plenty of great engineers that want to work remotely and don't have that option at the large companies. There are also plenty…

Also, almost certainly, you don't want to hire engineers after they end up working at one of the tech giants, and the more experienced they are the worse. Having had the unfortunate experience of working along side some of the 'veterans' of one of these tech giants, it was a little disconcerting how easily they would form cliques based on perceived 'proven vs unproven' folks - if you hadn't worked at one of the tech…

If you noticed this problem at your company "from below", your upper management completely failed to notice it, and it's their fault for not noticing the strain and for letting people behave lazily and arrogantly in the first place. Good managers would reeducate or remove the veterans on a case by case basis, ensuring everybody follows the rules and collaborates productively.
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