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They Used To Last 50 Years

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Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#321

Post by [deleted] »

markbnj wrote: post #96
psadauskas wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The only explanation..."? What about "never attribute to malice..." and Occam's Razor. I think a more likely explanation is that in the majority of cases when shopping for an appliance and your choices are a $1500 one and a $2000 one, you buy the cheaper one. This forces manufacturers to compete on price, and to cut costs wherever possible to remain profitable. Additionally, I just spent 30 seconds googling and a wa…

Came here to ask how the author could write that entire piece and not compare costs.

[deleted]

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#322

Post by mark-r »

sokoloff wrote: post #163
emodendroket wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about that particular example, but refrigerators with ice makers are an obvious case of people buying appliances way more likely to break down.

Yes, but I replaced my ice maker for $36 and about 30 minutes of my time (10 minutes to figure out what to order; 20 minutes to put it in). https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002GZND6U

In my case it wasn't the ice maker itself, but the plumbing leading up to it within the refrigerator. I finally ended up turning off the water supply after my DIY repair broke a second time.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#323

Post by someonenice »

gozur88 wrote: post #307
rsync wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"If you want one of the best displays on a TV, it comes "bundled in" with "smart" features. " Not true. If you buy a commercial display (you know, those panels you see in airports) not only will it be a far higher quality display than any consumer model, but it will also be the dumbest display you can imagine. They're not that much more expensive - which makes sense, since end users are sometimes building video walls…

What I worry about with televisions is they'll come out with new standards that will render my keep-it-for-30-years TV obsolete in three or four years.

Some one will come up with an external adapter that will do the conversion. Generally saw this with the PS/2 usb mouse. usb ethernet etc.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#324

Post by EEGuy »

reitanqild wrote: post #287
ryanmarsh wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After repairing my appliances one by one, finding the schematics, diagnosing parts and then searching for replacements I discovered the cheapest model and the most expensive model of most appliances by the same manufacturer share all the same parts except the exterior and control panel. That dishwasher or washing machine with extra modes for $1,000 more? It's the same as the cheapest model, they just didn't put the e…

After repairing my appliances one by one, finding the schematics, diagnosing parts and then searching for replacements Where did you find the schematics? I tried a few years ago to find just instructions for some appliances and gave up because of search engine spam etc.

Search for PDF

Prefixing your appliance model number with PDF cuts way down on unrelated sales material and spam.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#325

Post by kw71 »

gcb0 wrote: post #140
psadauskas wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The only explanation..."? What about "never attribute to malice..." and Occam's Razor. I think a more likely explanation is that in the majority of cases when shopping for an appliance and your choices are a $1500 one and a $2000 one, you buy the cheaper one. This forces manufacturers to compete on price, and to cut costs wherever possible to remain profitable. Additionally, I just spent 30 seconds googling and a wa…

don't look any further, I bought a 3k washer and dryer combination from LG 4 years ago. It boasted a ten year warranty! the paint, drum, motor, finish, everything looks like new. But, the controller board burned. I know my way around electronics, mind you, I can see exactly what is wrong (burned transformer), but the whole board is covered in some gelatin that makes any repair impossible. the power input board is als…

An SMPS controller burned on my LG Washer control. LG didn't have any boards in stock, so I decided to repair it myself. Pried the board out of the tray with autobody pry tools and pulled away the silicone goo where I needed to repair.

I don't know what the rationale is for the board being covered in a half inch of rubber potting. A smaller coating would have provided a water seal, and this rubber is a heat insulator. Seems counterintuitive to me.

You will have to replace the board if the transformer has an open winding, because all these transformers are application specific. The silicone was burnt around some of the transformer terminals on my board, which scared me, but I didn't find any open windings. The other special part on this board is the cpu, everything else on the board is commodity and it is a real shame that LG decide to use this rubber potting AND screw up the supply of replacement parts.

I think it's a real flaw to integrate switchmode power supplies into control boards.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#326

Post by lf275 »

prodmerc wrote: post #8

I've worked on hundreds of domestic appliances. Newer ones from any manufacturer are indeed failing more often, and are designed worse. The only explanation is that this is on purpose - just like cars or laptops or smartphones, they are designed to fail faster so you buy new ones. Planned obsolescence, plain and simple. The best appliances today, by the way, are made by Bosch/Siemens and Miele. None of the other manu…

The belief that "our cars used to last much longer, manufacturers are screwing us" is bullshit. I'm not sure if people are looking at the past through rose-colored glasses, or if there's severe selection bias (people only notice the 40 year old car, not recognizing that it only represents >1% of the vehicles produced at the time, and has received a fortune in repairs and maintenance costs), but the data is clear, our cars are better and last much longer than they do in the past. Just look at the average age of the vehicle fleet:

https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/ohim/onh00/line3.htm

https://www.rita.dot.gov/bts/sites/rita.dot.gov.bts/files/pu...

There are short-term blips in this data when new vehicle sales surge (or vice-versa), but the average age of vehicles hit a record high of almost 12 years last year, and the long-term trend is clear: our vehicles last much longer than they do in the past. There has also been a population surge in vehicles over 15 years of age, which has been a significant positive secular trend for numerous parts manufacturers and repair shops in the industry, and the increased complexity of the vehicle fleet (more parts that repair shops need quick access to), which has pushed numerous players in the automotive supply chain to invest more in their distribution infrastructure. Cars have become more complex, but the parts in the vehicles also fail much less frequently than they did in the past (though many now integrate more parts and cost more than they have in the past).

I did a bunch of research on the automotive sector for my last job, and it's striking how laymen's views are completely contrary to what is going on in the industry. I don't know much about the other appliance markets, but I wonder if there is a similar misperception issue in the other markets.

As for the short life-cycles in new technology like smartphones, is that really so terrible? My current smartphone is much better than the last one I bought in 2014, and miles better than the first smartphones that were in released in 2009-10. The short life-cycle reflects how quickly the products improved and evolved. That said, the improvement rate has slowed down, so hopefully, people will hold onto their smartphones longer instead of updating just for fashion reasons.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#327

Post by kw71 »

reitanqild wrote: post #287
ryanmarsh wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After repairing my appliances one by one, finding the schematics, diagnosing parts and then searching for replacements I discovered the cheapest model and the most expensive model of most appliances by the same manufacturer share all the same parts except the exterior and control panel. That dishwasher or washing machine with extra modes for $1,000 more? It's the same as the cheapest model, they just didn't put the e…

After repairing my appliances one by one, finding the schematics, diagnosing parts and then searching for replacements Where did you find the schematics? I tried a few years ago to find just instructions for some appliances and gave up because of search engine spam etc.

elektrotanya is one good library.

~10 years ago I decided to obtain and review service manuals before buying machinery, to be sure I could have the documentation and to try and figure out what pile of crap I am getting into.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#328

Post by dclowd9901 »

mrbill wrote: post #313
WalterBright wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've had many cars with electric windows. They all eventually failed, usually when it was raining, and the windows could not be raised. Fixing them would cost over $500. My truck now has hand cranked windows, and mechanical door locks. They're no trouble at all, and I'm happy with them.

I've had to replace the motor/regulator for my driver's side power window twice now ('05 Mitsu Galant). Fortunately it's just a $75-100 part and less than an hour of work.

Mitsubishis have always been notorious for shoddy build quality.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#329

Post by throwaway049 »

pythonistic wrote: post #292
ethbro wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the cheaper end of $3000, I've heard great things about Speed Queens. The linked review below is meh, but people who love them love them because they're apparently built like tanks. http://laundry.reviewed.com/content/speed-queen-awne92sp113t...

I bought a Speed Queen front-loader a few months ago. Although I can't say anything about the longevity, I was very impressed with the quality of the machine, going so far as to take pictures of the underside of the drum, drain plug, electronics package, and braces when setting it up. It's heavier -- about 250 pounds -- and quieter than the top-loader I replaced. I worry a little about the electronic control panel, t…

I've seen that brand in laundromats. I had no idea they made domestic machines too.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#330

Post by kw71 »

ryanmarsh wrote: post #305
yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you upgrade the cheap model, or is the takeaway that the expensive options aren't really valuable?

You can't upgrade the cheap models unless you found a way to buy the control panel and fit it to your appliance. Which might look pretty Frankenstein.

Buy the finishing parts from the better variant along with the control (or steal them along with the control if you raid a used machine?)
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