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No tipping means better business

tastefulventures.com

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Re: No tipping means better business

#321

Post by coreyp_1 »

I think that tipping as a percentage of the meal cost is absolutely idiotic.

I have never gotten good service at an expensive restaurant, and yet the receipt gives you the math for 18%, 20%, and 22% tips.

I have gotten good and bad service at cheap restaurants (something like Steak and Shake), and tip accordingly.

The "work" is not anything different between the two jobs. Just take my order, bring me my food, and refill my water glass (heck, leave me a pitcher of water and I'll be much happier and do the refilling myself!). Why does the expensive restaurant expect a $10.00 tip for this service, while the cheap place is happy with a $2.00 tip for the same amount of work?!?

Re: No tipping means better business

#322

Post by ohstopitu »

fowlerpower wrote: post #296

Having worked in the restaurant industry for over 12 years, started as a bus boy at 15 years old, then waiter, then bartender and finally moved to General Manager of the whole place. I can tell you that tipping is absolutely necessary. I can say that the article is dead wrong about this. Tipping is the best thing that's ever happened to the US Restourant business. Especially at great establishments with repeat custom…

I have to completely disagree with you on almost all points. I grew up in a culture where tipping was not mandatory but something that you did just because you wanted to/ felt like/were a regular (and tipping in this case is not limited to restaurants, it applies to delivery people, mail etc.)

1) "feel like owners" is just an excuse, because at this point, I'm forced to tip, if I don't, I know fully well that the server won't be making minimum wage (I know the restaurant has to pay them by law, but no server would want to loose their job over this)

2) tipping is not required but social pressures in groups general dictates that you tip. Also if I do get bad service, why should I tip 10%? (why not 0%?) - and that's exactly what I mean - I should NEVER be tipping anyone, the restaurant has to pay it's employees. If I feel like the service was exceptional, I don't mind tipping, but just in general - no tips should be necessary.

3) I don't generally mind the math (especially if you are paying electronically) as the machine can let you choose how much % you'd like to pay (that said, it generally does not tell you if it's applied before/after tax and is another thing to consider over the price of the food itself)

4) This once again should not be the concern of the customer - if at all, its' very easy to deal with this the same way tech companies do - with equity or bonuses.

5) I'm not too sure, but if I pay electronically, I can tip at McDonalds too. (obviously it's not forced, and I can if I want and have a great service, and I love this method).

Re: No tipping means better business

#323

Post by sharpplanar »

thoughtsimple wrote: post #267
vkjv wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just an FYI, but if a tipped employee does not meet the minimum wage, the employer must make up the difference. https://webapps.dol.gov/elaws/faq/esa/flsa/002.htm

This is almost certainly going to rarely happen. Almost no server feels empowered enough to insist on this. And restaurant owners will start insisting on collecting and counting cash tips so they can fully account for the wages. No server wants their boss counting their cash tips. At least in Massachusetts, declared tips is self reported.

I used to do accounting for a restaurant and I would disagree with you and say with the move to modern Point Of Sale software restaurants not doing this would be the exception now. We checked this every pay period to make sure servers were at or over the proper hourly wage because it is illegal to pay them less.

Florida based for reference, tips are self reported here too but our POS system would automatically transfer tip amounts when a credit card was the payment method. So our payroll system already has that amount. Then we had an electronic time clock where servers scanned their hand to clock in\out, and it was set to prompt them for declared cash tips. It was a nicer restaurant (avg check a bit over 100$). Occasionally a server wouldn't declare enough tips to hit minimum wage for a pay period and the first thing HR would do is check to make sure they were declaring cash tips. In 5 years working there I can't remember a single time a server was actually under minimum wage for a pay period, they just weren't declaring cash tips because CC tips usually covered it.

I have been out of hospitality for a few years but I am seeing even smaller places with POS systems run on Ipads. I would assume since we live in the future these have similar features to the ancient 'micros' brand POS system we used and could integrate with quickbooks or better accounting software to run payroll and do these calculations.

P.S. for any server (or employee anywhere for that matter) who thinks their company is doing something illegal you don't have to even talk to your manager/boss/owner, just call the Department of Labor they pay people to fix these problems for you.

Re: No tipping means better business

#324

Post by ohstopitu »

piva00 wrote: post #307
fowlerpower wrote: post #296

Having worked in the restaurant industry for over 12 years, started as a bus boy at 15 years old, then waiter, then bartender and finally moved to General Manager of the whole place. I can tell you that tipping is absolutely necessary. I can say that the article is dead wrong about this. Tipping is the best thing that's ever happened to the US Restourant business. Especially at great establishments with repeat custom…

I seriously got very annoyed at most places I went to eat during my trip to the US last year. Having good service is not coming every 5 minutes ask if I'm all right, if I need something, if this or that. Leave me alone, I want to eat and enjoy, not have to reply a waiter eager for a tip. Also the whole vibe is very "fake", I never felt really "welcomed" in any of the places I went to, the greetings, the whole attitud…

I agree with you - there's a fine line between being genuinely helpful and nice to doing it just because they want tips and most places cross it.

Re: No tipping means better business

#325

Post by takno »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #243

Maybe I'm ruining it for everyone, but when I've gone to New York's budding "no tip" restaurants, I've thrown a cash tip on the bill. Guess what happened next? I was asked my name, and the next times I went, I got seated faster, comped chef's recommendations and a generally friendlier interaction with my server. Same thing happens abroad, where the locals don't tip well. I don't understand how people get shocked by f…

What would generally happen if you tried that in a place that stated they didn't accept tips in the UK would probably be that you'd be smiled at, your money would go in a charity tin and the server would make a mental note to serve you last next time. I suspect your ego would then simply reject the obviously bad service you received the next time and you would convince yourself that you had somehow benefited rather than accept that your previous actions were arrogant, culturally imperialistic and unwise.

Re: No tipping means better business

#326

Post by lostphilosopher »

coreyp_1 wrote: post #321

I think that tipping as a percentage of the meal cost is absolutely idiotic. I have never gotten good service at an expensive restaurant, and yet the receipt gives you the math for 18%, 20%, and 22% tips. I have gotten good and bad service at cheap restaurants (something like Steak and Shake), and tip accordingly. The "work" is not anything different between the two jobs. Just take my order, bring me my food, and ref…

This! I have never heard a compelling explanation of this. It gets doubly weird with alcohol in the equation. A group of 4 shares a $60 dollar bottle of wine with dinner. The waiter/ress brings a bottle and pours 4 glasses. If that doesn't kill the bottle they leave it and often the guests refill on their own.

= $12 tip

A table of 4 gets 4 glasses of pop $2.50 each, each a different kind. The waiter/ress brings 4 full glasses to the table, and then goes back and forth filling them for each individual.

= $2.00 tip

What?!

Re: No tipping means better business

#327

Post by sebleon »

eeZah7Ux wrote: post #149
sebleon wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Omitting tipping and taxes from prices is deceitful and annoying, but it promotes consumerism and getting people to spend more. The key for restaurants is to minimize the menu item price when you decide what to order. Even if you have a mental limit of $15, you might spend $17.55 on lunch because the menu said $14 when you ordered.

> but it promotes consumerism Phrased as if it was a good thing.

It's good for extracting money from restaurant patrons :p

As for humanity, imo capitalism is the wrong model if we want to optimize for global happiness. Directionally, basic income seems better, though I'm sure the devil is in the details...

Re: No tipping means better business

#328

Post by ensignavenger »

illumin8 wrote: post #286
thoughtsimple wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is almost certainly going to rarely happen. Almost no server feels empowered enough to insist on this. And restaurant owners will start insisting on collecting and counting cash tips so they can fully account for the wages. No server wants their boss counting their cash tips. At least in Massachusetts, declared tips is self reported.

I've even seen something very shady recently - a nice restaurant that added a mandatory 20% "service fee" to our party of 7, had fine print that said "60% of your service fee goes to your wait staff." The implication is that not only is this restaurant, which we ended up paying ~$80 a person to eat dinner + wine + dessert at, screwing their customers with the mandatory service charge, they're also screwing their empl…

I doubt that the 40% goes to the owner, it probably goes to the kitchen staff.

Re: No tipping means better business

#329

Post by ohstopitu »

kilburn wrote: post #250
j2bax wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a place where "tips are an optional extra"? It seems wherever I've been they are either expected or not expected/allowed...

Spain. It is common to "round it off" as a tip around here, but not mandatory in any way. Examples: You get a beer somewhere, it's 1.75€ and you round it off to 2€. That's a reasonable tip that says "service has been fine, thanks.". You get dinner somewhere, it's 57.25€ and you round it to 60€. Same thing as above. You get dinner somewhere, it's 57.25€ and you pay exactly that amount. The message is "the price was fa…

This is generally how I used to go about it till a friend mentioned that I'd need to do the 20% bit.

Re: No tipping means better business

#330

Post by Draiken »

coreyp_1 wrote: post #321

I think that tipping as a percentage of the meal cost is absolutely idiotic. I have never gotten good service at an expensive restaurant, and yet the receipt gives you the math for 18%, 20%, and 22% tips. I have gotten good and bad service at cheap restaurants (something like Steak and Shake), and tip accordingly. The "work" is not anything different between the two jobs. Just take my order, bring me my food, and ref…

Wholeheartedly agree.

I feel like these numbers were just made up. Who decided 10% is good? or 20%? Why is it a percentage?

This whole system is absurd to me. If we follow the same logic then why don't programmers get "tips" when they do a nice commit message? or deliver on time? why are servers so different?

Just saying it out loud makes me giggle because of how silly it sounds.

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