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Brew commands send data to Google Analytics

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Re: Brew commands send data to Google Analytics

#321

Post by Esau »

hueving wrote: post #17
CJefferson wrote: post #7

I knew, and I was prompted. I can understand why this might upset people, but for me I hope it will make brew a better product. I'm sure we all know as developers how annoying it can be to not know the problems users have, and what they are using your software for -- that's why most websites have analytics. I'm hoping to add something similar to software I work on, with an opt-out of course. I believe it will help me…

Please make it opt in. If you truly believe people closely read the prompts for having their data harvested, a default to "No" should not impact you at all. If you don't believe they read the prompts closely, you're an asshole for stealing data by default.

This is the correct answer. Opt-out is a jerk move - used by those who value themselves more than their users/customers/fellow humans.

Re: Brew commands send data to Google Analytics

#322

Post by JakeTheAndroid »

hueving wrote: post #236
pvinis wrote: post #19

Yes we know. brew tells you that. And you can disable it. Data is being sent to Google everytime you do almost anything in almost all websites, using the same technology. So what? Some of the times it's to make the product better, or better targeted. Some other times it's just for spying on the users. Let's stop complaining about stuff that someone does and tell you they do it. There are many more that do the same th…

>Yes we know. brew tells you that. And you can disable it. No, we don't know. This article wouldn't have hit the front page if it wasn't subtle and user-hostile by default (opt-out). >Data is being sent to Google everytime you do almost anything in almost all websites, using the same technology. So what? Brew is not a website, it's a CLI tool. People expect this behavior of websites, not of sysadmin tools. How would…

That's a bit extreme. A compiler sending your codebase has potential IP implications. Sending your brew commands back to brew is much different.

What commands do you run in brew that isn't specific to brew? Whereas, compiling code is a very specific-to-you scenario. If brew fails, it's likely to be caused by brew itself or a package that is part of the repository. If you your compiler runs into an issue, it's not inherent to the compiler necessarily. I'm not a fan of brew at all, and I can't really find the malice here. Either opt out, stop using brew, or accept it. Why are you on OSX if you care that much about your package manager anyways? Ive worked at many companies, and any that let you choose a MacBook will let you opt for a Linux laptop instead (YMMV I guess).

Re: Brew commands send data to Google Analytics

#323

Post by zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC »

rubber_duck wrote: post #299
TeMPOraL wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

May be, but you didn't use the word "paranoia" to describe just this in your previous comment; you described also things like medical information.

I mean the general sentiment. I'm not saying people should have access to your full medical history, personal info, etc. on demand. I am saying is that these benign things are opt-out not because most people wouldn't want to do them if they weigh the prons and cons but because they don't want to put in the effort of doing so and will just be conservative - which is logical from an individual perspective - but will ca…

> So instead of fighting a lost battle with trying to keep absolute privacy why not just make most of that data public and available and focus on protecting the really sensitive stuff.

Because you can't. You cannot build something that protects the really sensitive stuff out of stuff that's leaking data left and right, making it harder and harder to protect the really sensitive stuff.

Re: Brew commands send data to Google Analytics

#324

Post by hashhar »

They do prompt for this. And the document that details this if very descriptive. They have also specifically called out the files used for analytics and even have an environment variable to echo the analytics information.

I think this is paranoia.

And thanks a lot to Max for making this great piece of software.

Re: Brew commands send data to Google Analytics

#325

Post by vsl »

blub wrote: post #99
pvinis wrote: post #19

Yes we know. brew tells you that. And you can disable it. Data is being sent to Google everytime you do almost anything in almost all websites, using the same technology. So what? Some of the times it's to make the product better, or better targeted. Some other times it's just for spying on the users. Let's stop complaining about stuff that someone does and tell you they do it. There are many more that do the same th…

The US approach to privacy is "let the market sort it out". It has sorted it out by transforming the internet into a giant spying machine sucking up contacts, photos, documents, videos, metadata, what packages you use, when where and how you exercise, everything The EU approach to privacy (eroded by lobbying and lack of control over US companies) is that citizens have a right over their information. They can ask what…

The EU approach of “let’s regulate everything and let incompetent out of touch bureaucrats write the legislation” left to annoying (much more than ads for me) cookie banners and other such nonsense. Starting next year, cookies — i.e. often random nonsense numbers — will have to be treated as personal data in EU. I envy US.

Re: Brew commands send data to Google Analytics

#326

Post by majewsky »

lewiseason wrote: post #251
codedokode wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe you should ask them better. For example you could ask for help on the home page of your project or in the beginning of a tutorial. Or maybe they do not want to paticipate. Is it right to ignore this and turn analytics on by default?

The Debian installer gets this right: it prompts you during the install whether it can collect information about installed packages for popcon[1] [1] http://popcon.debian.org/

I never understood why popcon is necessary. Couldn't you achieve about the same result by just counting downloads on the package mirrors?

Re: Brew commands send data to Google Analytics

#327

Post by tn6o »

quesera wrote: post #268
mikemcquaid wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Some of the times it's to make the product better, or better targeted. Homebrew lead maintainer here. This is exactly why we do it. To repeat myself from below: we're chronically understaffed and underfunded. > Furthermore, now that you know, for brew specifically, will you opt out? It's worth noting: if everyone who uses a niche piece of software opt-out when it breaks we'll look at our analytics and likely remove…

You do not need telemetry from everyone to make informed decisions like this. If just 1% of users opt-in to telemetry, you would have more than enough data for a representative sample set. This is the whole point. You can do the right thing without any loss of data usefulness. So why persist in doing the wrong thing??

And then the 1% will start complaining. "Why me?"

The team behind Brew is doing a great job and if analytics can help them do a better job, then be it. Nobody is forcing you to use it and opting out is simple enough.

Re: Brew commands send data to Google Analytics

#328

Post by tn6o »

true_religion wrote: post #23
hueving wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please make it opt in. If you truly believe people closely read the prompts for having their data harvested, a default to "No" should not impact you at all. If you don't believe they read the prompts closely, you're an asshole for stealing data by default.

Calling it theft feels a bit hyperbolic.

Agreed.

Re: Brew commands send data to Google Analytics

#329

Post by tn6o »

mikemcquaid wrote: post #118
froh42 wrote: post #38

As I didn't update brew for a long time I did not have the analytics version. So I upgraded to see what happens. In fact it did NOT prompt me when enabling analytics, but it did display a notice (hidden in several hundred lines of output during brew upgrade): ------------------- + 5a9e19f...7f13b37 master -> origin/master (forced update) * [new tag] 0.1 -> 0.1 HEAD is now at 7f13b37 Merge pull request #1562 from wood…

> Looking at the website one of homebrew's developers (or at least the website developers) is based over here in Europe. He might be a nice target if you want to raise a stink and litigate. Homebrew lead maintainer here. We're chronically understaffed and underfunded. We have analytics so we can make Homebrew better by figuring out how to prioritise security, maintenance and bug fixes on packages based on how much th…

Haters will always hate. Keep up the good work guys! People seem to think they are entitled to something when using open-source software, but they're not. It's still the people working and maintaining it who get to take the decisions, and if you guys think you need analytics to provide a better tool, go for it.

I also completely understand the need for default opt-in. I probably wouldn't check the prompt and leave the default, but for a project like this, I honestly don't mind sending usage data.

If you're not happy with the direction taken by the maintainers, find another tool.

Re: Brew commands send data to Google Analytics

#330

Post by hueving »

justinclift wrote: post #319
mikemcquaid wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don't have our own machines that are capable of handling this. If you're offering to host them for us for at least two years for free: get in touch.

Email sent. :)

Well now we'll see if the cost excuse was just a smokescreen I suppose.
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