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Google joins .NET Foundation as Samsung brings .NET support to Tizen

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Re: Google joins .NET Foundation as Samsung brings .NET support to Tizen

#321

Post by K0SM0S »

cm2187 wrote: post #256
icebraining wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure it was difficult, but you can already ship C# code using Xamarin, no need to wait for Microsoft.

Xamarin is a bit of a hack. What we really need is a cross platform solid (i.e. not javascript) language supported natively. What would be ideal would be that Apple, Google and Microsoft sit together and agree on a common language and GUI API that would work on Android, iOS, Windows, MacOS and Linux natively.

I've often dreamed of this, especially when it seemed all too obvious for MS to release an Android phone; then again after ubuntu/bash on Windows. But whereas it seems like a golden opportunity for MS, it would essentially be Google handing keys to a mobile realm to MS. Short of a super-deal on desktop I don't see what's in it for Google to enter such a partnership (and Bing vs Gsearch, or countless other frontal rivalries, isn't conducive to a desktop alliance, notwithstanding the predictable end/shift of desktop as a category/paradigm). Nothing beyond scope-limited projects like TS between MS and G, as I see it currently.

What's more likely these days is Google entering the desktop space (x86) by merging it with mobile (e.g. Andromeda). Pretty sure that OS could grab 30% of new laptops in a heartbeat (think: almost free for manufacturers: no Win license).

Meanwhile, I'm pretty sure Apple will do its thing (did they fix Gmail on Mail yet?) Though I think Swift, if it were in "the state of C#/.NET" as worded above, would eventually become a great candidate for a high level common language. Somehow I don't think Apple is trying, their open-sourcing seems to end at "reassurance" (stacks can't die if you can maintain the packages, b/c oss, yay).

Re: Google joins .NET Foundation as Samsung brings .NET support to Tizen

#322

Post by fsiefken »

cm2187 wrote: post #256
icebraining wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure it was difficult, but you can already ship C# code using Xamarin, no need to wait for Microsoft.

Xamarin is a bit of a hack. What we really need is a cross platform solid (i.e. not javascript) language supported natively. What would be ideal would be that Apple, Google and Microsoft sit together and agree on a common language and GUI API that would work on Android, iOS, Windows, MacOS and Linux natively.

What's wrong with Vue.js/TypeScript/ES6/Weex(native) or React/TypeScript/ES6/Native? It's no C#, but it's modern, performant, crossplatform and can be OS themed.

Re: Google joins .NET Foundation as Samsung brings .NET support to Tizen

#323

Post by kuschku »

eropple wrote: post #314
mmgutz wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean most .NET developers use Windows?

I mean most developers, period , use Windows, on a worldwide basis. Most web developers use Windows. Most C/C++ developers use Windows. Most Android developers use Windows. Almost all .NET developers use Windows--but most developers, period, use Windows. Windows is the de facto standard in most places that aren't chasing the leading edge.

> I mean most developers, period, use Windows, on a worldwide basis.

I’m not sure anyone would agree with that.

Unless you also count designers, and kids who just learnt how to click together a website in Frontpage 2000 as developers.

Especially if you count compsci graduates, it becomes very obvious just how much *nix dominates.

Re: Google joins .NET Foundation as Samsung brings .NET support to Tizen

#324

Post by cm2187 »

fsiefken wrote: post #322
cm2187 wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Xamarin is a bit of a hack. What we really need is a cross platform solid (i.e. not javascript) language supported natively. What would be ideal would be that Apple, Google and Microsoft sit together and agree on a common language and GUI API that would work on Android, iOS, Windows, MacOS and Linux natively.

What's wrong with Vue.js/TypeScript/ES6/Weex(native) or React/TypeScript/ES6/Native? It's no C#, but it's modern, performant, crossplatform and can be OS themed.

I'm only familiar with TypeScript. It is adding types to javascript, which is welcomed. But that doesn't make up for a lot of the uglyness of the language. Javascript was never meant to be anything else than a way to open porn popups ads and it shows.

But even C# is starting to show its age and would deserved a reboot. If we agree on a truly cross platform language, we might as well make it modern and simple, with great tooling. That does mean breaking backward compatibility with older languages but the benefits of having a common language way offset the cost of retraining developers.

Re: Google joins .NET Foundation as Samsung brings .NET support to Tizen

#325

Post by mvitorino »

xorxornop wrote: post #296
eggy wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I prefer F# over C#, and I think it is a better competitor to Swift or Java or Kotlin.

The important thing is CLR support. Everything else is just semantics. (literally)

Semantics improves expressiveness which provides conciseness, which leads to less code. Less code is generally less bugs (sure...arguable). But definitely expressiveness is also often correlated to programmer happiness, which is important in itself.

Re: Google joins .NET Foundation as Samsung brings .NET support to Tizen

#326

Post by pjmlp »

bitmapbrother wrote: post #129
patates wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dart doesn't have the adoption yet and has a different plan when it comes to mobile ( https://github.com/flutter/flutter ). I love Go, but it's not really a suitable language to do UI, or anything that deals with data models. C#, however, is a perfect replacement for Java, most of the times. I would say "it's simply superior in every imaginable metric other than cross-platform implementations of the compiler/VM" but…

Dart is a first class citizen in their Fuchsia OS. I wouldn't be surprised to see Fuchsia replace Linux one day on Android/Andromeda.

I might be proven wrong, but I doubt it is going anywhere.

After Google own teams decided to go Typescript, the Dart team seems to keep searching for reasons to keep the project alive.

Re: Google joins .NET Foundation as Samsung brings .NET support to Tizen

#327

Post by pjmlp »

blauditore wrote: post #44
mattmanser wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What magic are you talking about? Various .Net frameworks have silly amounts of magic, but C# itself?

When I started going into C# from Java a bit, there were two things slightly annoying me: - Class extensions: I saw code examples online that just wouldn't work for me because the compiler told me a certain method of a built-in class wouldn't exist. After I while I found out that the author of that snippet had used class extensions and not bothered to mention. - The var keyword: While this is sometimes nice for quick…

I guess you are out of touch with Java.

Extensions methods can be approached via default methods.

Java 9, latest by 10, will get var. It is already on the approved roadmap.

Re: Google joins .NET Foundation as Samsung brings .NET support to Tizen

#328

Post by pjmlp »

ygra wrote: post #266
wesamco wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://github.com/dotnet/corert/blob/master/Documentation/i...

Ah, thanks. Didn't notice that part. So it's more an option, among others, while the "normal" .NET Native toolchain directly goes the IL → machine code route via RyuJIT.

.NET Native doesn't use RyuJIT, rather Visual C++'s backend.

CoreRT uses RyuJIT.

Re: Google joins .NET Foundation as Samsung brings .NET support to Tizen

#329

Post by pjmlp »

Grazester wrote: post #50
Longhanks wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No more problems with Oracle, C# features that Java is missing, such as type inference, proper generics, built in concurrency, operator overloading, first class optionals, ...

Their move to Open JDK should do away with the oracle issue no?

They are just cherry picking features, check the AOSP.

Re: Google joins .NET Foundation as Samsung brings .NET support to Tizen

#330

Post by pjmlp »

int_19h wrote: post #239
KMag wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that C/C++ code you're calling still needs to be compiled to native code. The GP was referring to .NET CIL (bytecode) supporting (by design) a large subset of C/C++ semantics. The GP wants to avoid shipping N different binaries for N platforms in cases where the C/C++ code being called isn't already on the platforms. I haven't used Managed C++ and I'm fuzzy on the details, but my understanding is that a fairly la…

Based on what I know about CIL and C++, the entirety of C and C++ can be compiled to [unverifiable] CIL. The sole exception is setjmp/longjmp - this might be doable on top of CLI exceptions, but I'm not sure. And, indeed, VC++ lets you do just that. There are some bits of the standard library, mostly new stuff like threads and atomic, that had some issues, as I recall. But it's more about the amount of effort that's…

Dynamic languages cannot be easily mapped to CIL, which is why IronPython was the genesis of DLR extensions, later added as standard part of .NET.
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