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How I Got the $84k Hepatitis C Drug for $1500 by Buying It from India

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Re: How I Got the $84k Hepatitis C Drug for $1500 by Buying It from India

#321

Post by nickpsecurity »

Hondor wrote: post #254
nickpsecurity wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, this was apparently misreported to me although it still says wonders about the situation. It was a threatened mass suicide that led to concessions. Over a dozen did jump to death. And the worst part of what I originally received.... curtailing the suicides by installing safety nets instead of better working conditions... did happen. So, yes, that's unusually bad with not many in the U.S. that can compare. I'll…

My university started locking the balcony doors of its library building after a suicider jumped off. Nobody complained that they should have provided better studying conditions for students and left the doors open. It seemed like a completely sensible and thoughtful thing to do to prevent more suicides. I've been inside Chinese factories and they seem just like factories anywhere else. Americans need to stop imaginin…

It's the Chinese workers telling us all of this. In most democracies, people just say they don't like the job they have or try to get another one. The stuff we hear about Foxconn et al is unusual. The sources are Chinese over there working at such places and/or immigrating here to U.S. to get away from the stuff. So, we figure it's probably true.

Of course, China could always reduce their media censorship so we can get honest coverage of everything. Then, we might know more. :)

Re: How I Got the $84k Hepatitis C Drug for $1500 by Buying It from India

#322

Post by danielweber »

YPCrumble wrote: post #291

Gilead has developed the first drug since penicillin to cure a major disease and people think the price tag is too expensive. In the modern world, it's not ideal to create a drug to cure something. Once people are cured they no longer need your drug. That's why we have so many drugs like Lipitor and Viagra that treat symptoms but do not cure. The "problem" with Sovaldi/Harvoni is that the patient only takes it for ~9…

In the modern world, it's not ideal to create a drug to cure something.

The drug companies produce the drugs they can. They are nervous enough about having enough blockbusters in their upcoming pipeline that if they could make something that cures a given cancer, they would.

We've eaten the low-hanging fruit. If any of us went back in time a hundred years we could come up with a polio vaccine just by trying a few times to remember what we learned about it in grade school. Modern diseases that don't have a cure in a pill isn't because someone never thought of doing it; it's because it takes hundreds of scientists doing lots of long trials to find something that improves outcomes by 10%.

Re: How I Got the $84k Hepatitis C Drug for $1500 by Buying It from India

#323

Post by danielweber »

maxerickson wrote: post #303
swalsh wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked for a company that developed some PA criteria for these drugs, I can assure you a lot of debate went into this criteria.. these two specific drugs are probably the most hotly contested drugs. If we sold them at the 84k price tag to anyone that COULD use it, the entire insurance industry would go bankrupt, literally. Not even an exaggeration. While your logic is sound, the drug is cheaper than a liver transpl…

Do you have a sense of the production costs? If they aren't very high, the US government could start making the company look like jerks by offering $50 billion for the patent. I'm pretty sure they would be able to calculate a nice return based on a payment like that. The math works fine for that, there's ~3 million people just in the US to treat, paying $50 billion would save a substantial amount just treating those…

> the US government could start making the company look like jerks by offering $50 billion for the patent

Pretend you were in charge of Medicare/Medicaid. The NPV of the lifetime care cost of the HepC symptoms of each HepC patient on your rolls is $X. You want to encourage someone to develop a cure for HepC, so you put out a price bid for what you will pay someone who shows up with a cure. What price do you offer?

Re: How I Got the $84k Hepatitis C Drug for $1500 by Buying It from India

#324

Post by danielweber »

roywiggins wrote: post #163
corvallis wrote: post #122

Something to keep in mind is the population that typically has chronic Hep C requiring this drug. It's IV drug users who share needles. Think they have $84K? Nope. Think they have insurance? Nope. Guess who pays for it. Oh that's right, it's Medicaid! It's you, the taxpayers. Where is there a large concentration of people that have Hep C? Prisons. Guess who pays for it then? Still you! The prison systems are obligate…

It is expensive, but still cheaper than treating someone in the US with HepC for life, which Medicaid is already paying.

https://blog.jaibot.com/the-copenhagen-interpretation-of-eth...

Copenhagen theory of ethics:

If person A ignores a problem, but person B comes up with an expensive solution to the problem, person B is the monster because he should have come up with a cheap solution. Person A is completely innocent.

(Obviously this is nuts.)

Re: How I Got the $84k Hepatitis C Drug for $1500 by Buying It from India

#325

Post by maxerickson »

danielweber wrote: post #323
maxerickson wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have a sense of the production costs? If they aren't very high, the US government could start making the company look like jerks by offering $50 billion for the patent. I'm pretty sure they would be able to calculate a nice return based on a payment like that. The math works fine for that, there's ~3 million people just in the US to treat, paying $50 billion would save a substantial amount just treating those…

> the US government could start making the company look like jerks by offering $50 billion for the patent Pretend you were in charge of Medicare/Medicaid. The NPV of the lifetime care cost of the HepC symptoms of each HepC patient on your rolls is $X. You want to encourage someone to develop a cure for HepC, so you put out a price bid for what you will pay someone who shows up with a cure. What price do you offer?

I offer $Y, the lowest amount I think I can get them to accept.

Re: How I Got the $84k Hepatitis C Drug for $1500 by Buying It from India

#326

Post by tomc1985 »

greeneggs wrote: post #316
tomc1985 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's 2x to 3x the before-tax income of your average non-tech-employed American. Are you kidding?!?!

But isn't it worth two or three years of income to save your life? It seems absolutely worth it to me, frankly a much better value than almost anything I spend money on (I mean, Netflix?).

Not if people who can't afford it have their lives ruined simply because they can't afford it

Re: How I Got the $84k Hepatitis C Drug for $1500 by Buying It from India

#327

Post by tomc1985 »

greeneggs wrote: post #315
tomc1985 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, $300k is even more unconscionable. Medicine in the US is wwaaaaaaaaaaay overpriced. Things that are critical for life needs to be priced at a reasonable flat rate above costs, and conducted with the attitude of public service and human actualization. Let big pharma reap their R&D costs some other way

> Let big pharma reap their R&D costs some other way How?! You think they should create a social network for doctors? A billion dollars in ad sales is somehow morally better than a billion dollars from saving lives? They're making their money by saving lives, and being criticized for it. You're effectively saying that they shouldn't do any R&D, like the Indian generic drug companies. Sorry for the exclamation points.…

I'm not in that industry, I'm sure my ideas aren't very good.

* massive step up in grant funding to front-load R&D costs so they're paid by the time the drug is out, or

* worldwide medical R&D fund, bounties for individual re-searchable issues, or

* move private R&D to universities, have profits gained pay back R&D, send any extras to researchers, and shutter R&D aspect of private medicine

At least I'm trying to think of alternatives, and not just trying to shoot other commenters down

Re: How I Got the $84k Hepatitis C Drug for $1500 by Buying It from India

#328

Post by 0bamacare »

y04nn wrote: post #226

The pharmaceutical industry is disgusting me. Their goal is no more to cure people but to generate that maximum amount of cash for shareholders. To chose a price point, they don't look at what research has cost, but what people, government aid and insurance are willing to pay for it and choose chose a price that max out the benefit. In developed country it becomes ridiculous. As a note, when they have to make risky r…

I give you an A for finally coming w/the right answer.I was falling asleep reading all this liberal blather.

Re: How I Got the $84k Hepatitis C Drug for $1500 by Buying It from India

#329

Post by 0bamacare »

dannylandau wrote: post #93
refurb wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked on one of the old interferon drugs before Sovaldi/Harvoni came along. They sucked. Patient compliance was low due to the side effects. From what I've heard, it was like having the flu everyday for duration of treatment. If you any mental health issues (depression, etc) you couldn't take it since the rate of suicide goes way up. The new HCV drugs are an amazing breakthrough.

Does anyone know the prevalence of the most common side effects for Harvoni? I usually defer to the following site but they don't have info on the drug -- http://www.healthbee.co/

The only place I saw them list side effects was when an article for a newer drug argued for it's use. It was the one for those who'd previously tried interferon.They said it had no sides as opposed to Harvonihttp://www.fiercepharma.com/regulatory/updated-zepatier-beat...

Re: How I Got the $84k Hepatitis C Drug for $1500 by Buying It from India

#330

Post by JoeAltmaier »

nkozyra wrote: post #290
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Clearer: its not 'ok' that segments of the population are 'priced out'. Its just economics. Life is hard.

Look everybody knows it's economics that drives this. That's not the point. We have mechanisms in place that can isolate certain aspects of life and remove them from the capitalist machine. On a grand scale it's socialized medicine but even on a smaller scale it's health insurance. And it's why hospitals don't kick out a dying person just because they're destitute. What we're talking about isn't "why does medicine X…

And insurance isn't ever going to level the playing field completely. Some things are just too expensive. It was asked Why? I know its not a free market. And there's a difference between luxuries and life-saving procedures/medicines. But some things cost a lot, and some folks will be able to afford them and some not. And that's not a mistake or a problem with the system.
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