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Apple Is Said to Be Working on an iPhone Even It Can’t Hack

nytimes.com

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Re: Apple Is Said to Be Working on an iPhone Even It Can’t Hack

#321

Post by eli_gottlieb »

geertj wrote: post #305

I've been very impressed with what I've learned in the last few weeks regarding Apple's efforts to provide privacy for its customer using what it seems some very robust engineering and design. I'm currently an Android user (Samsung S6 edge) but am considering seriously going back to the iPhone because of this. The cynical side of me says that Apple's marketing tactics have worked. But I've got a feeling, heck, I want…

Of course it's a short-term marketing benefit. But, if the encryption is secure, then the marketing benefit is matching up with the customer benefit, so hey.

Re: Apple Is Said to Be Working on an iPhone Even It Can’t Hack

#322

Post by vlunkr »

Udik wrote: post #315
erkkie wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can you ask a question like this? Define "so strong" in this context? It's similar to asking "do you need so free speech". We're not talking about anything special here beyond a standard expectation of reasonable security. The fact that apple is trying to make it "so secure even they can't hack it" is just a means for them to protect themselves that happens to align with the interests of the user.

General, unbreakable crypto security applied to all contents is a feature that very few people ever needed or even tried to achieve. Until a few years ago you were perfectly content with keeping an agenda in your pocket and pictures in your living room's drawer. A minimum of privacy is of course needed and welcome; however, unless you're planning a major terror attack, or strategic war plans, or you have incredibly v…

For me it's not really about my personal security because, you're right, there's nothing interesting on my phone. My issue is with one entity having access to ALL of our phones. Have you read 1984? Because that's what that sounds like. It's too much power for the government to have.

Re: Apple Is Said to Be Working on an iPhone Even It Can’t Hack

#323

Post by mkhalil »

Udik wrote: post #315
erkkie wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can you ask a question like this? Define "so strong" in this context? It's similar to asking "do you need so free speech". We're not talking about anything special here beyond a standard expectation of reasonable security. The fact that apple is trying to make it "so secure even they can't hack it" is just a means for them to protect themselves that happens to align with the interests of the user.

General, unbreakable crypto security applied to all contents is a feature that very few people ever needed or even tried to achieve. Until a few years ago you were perfectly content with keeping an agenda in your pocket and pictures in your living room's drawer. A minimum of privacy is of course needed and welcome; however, unless you're planning a major terror attack, or strategic war plans, or you have incredibly v…

Sorry but "unbreakable crypto" is the only right crypto.

Re: Apple Is Said to Be Working on an iPhone Even It Can’t Hack

#324

Post by Udik »

unprepare wrote: post #319
Udik wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you really need such strong security? Or after the FBI forced Apple to apply their best engineering minds to crack your phone, they'd just find a grocery shopping list and pictures of your cats? Because this sounds a bit like Tesla's "operating room air quality" - something that might be useful 0.001% of the customers, and it's just marketing for the remaining 99.999%

>Do you really need such strong security? Do i really need a quad core smartphone with a dedicated GPU 3GB of ram a higher pixel density than i can possibly distinguish, etc etc? Why would i settle for shitty crypto just because the information isnt a state secret?

Maybe you don't need it, but you'll have fun every day with it. While you'll never be able to enjoy the difference between "almost unbreakable" and "unbreakable".

Re: Apple Is Said to Be Working on an iPhone Even It Can’t Hack

#325

Post by Udik »

vlunkr wrote: post #322
Udik wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

General, unbreakable crypto security applied to all contents is a feature that very few people ever needed or even tried to achieve. Until a few years ago you were perfectly content with keeping an agenda in your pocket and pictures in your living room's drawer. A minimum of privacy is of course needed and welcome; however, unless you're planning a major terror attack, or strategic war plans, or you have incredibly v…

For me it's not really about my personal security because, you're right, there's nothing interesting on my phone. My issue is with one entity having access to ALL of our phones. Have you read 1984? Because that's what that sounds like. It's too much power for the government to have.

I think I missed the part where anybody asked Apple to build a backdoor into every phone that could be accessed without appropriate control from the authorities and without passing through Apple each time. Of course I'm not saying that your data should be uploaded daily to a government's server for anybody with a badge and free time to spare to look through.

Re: Apple Is Said to Be Working on an iPhone Even It Can’t Hack

#326

Post by Udik »

mkhalil wrote: post #323
Udik wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

General, unbreakable crypto security applied to all contents is a feature that very few people ever needed or even tried to achieve. Until a few years ago you were perfectly content with keeping an agenda in your pocket and pictures in your living room's drawer. A minimum of privacy is of course needed and welcome; however, unless you're planning a major terror attack, or strategic war plans, or you have incredibly v…

Sorry but "unbreakable crypto" is the only right crypto.

Of course. And 11000 meters waterproof is the only waterproof acceptable for a watch. And operating room clean air is the only clean air. And obsidian blades are the only ones that deserve to be used in your kitchen. And triple malt, 60 years aged whiskey is the only whiskey. Etc.

Re: Apple Is Said to Be Working on an iPhone Even It Can’t Hack

#327

Post by unprepare »

Udik wrote: post #324
unprepare wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Do you really need such strong security? Do i really need a quad core smartphone with a dedicated GPU 3GB of ram a higher pixel density than i can possibly distinguish, etc etc? Why would i settle for shitty crypto just because the information isnt a state secret?

Maybe you don't need it, but you'll have fun every day with it. While you'll never be able to enjoy the difference between "almost unbreakable" and "unbreakable".

and whats the cost differential to me as an end user?

And whats the difference to me between 452 ppi or 532 ppi? I'll never be able to enjoy the difference between the two, yet i would still go for the higher ppi all else being equal.

Re: Apple Is Said to Be Working on an iPhone Even It Can’t Hack

#328

Post by fluxquanta »

ohitsdom wrote: post #303
abalone wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> iCloud backups can be secured so not even Apple can get in... I'm sure they are working on it, but it is nontrivial. There is no way they are working on this. It is an intentional design decision that Apple offers an alternative way to recover your data if you lose your password. Or if you die without telling your next-of-kin your password. Most people do not actually want all of their family photos to self-destruc…

Has Apple even given access of someone's iCloud account to next-of-kin after they died? I've never heard of this, and I don't expect Apple to be responsible to preserve photos. You already can have shared photo streams, and there are many solutions for other data that could be potentially lost that don't involve Apple getting directly involved in these cases.

The idea of Apple (or some other big corporation) providing my protected personal data to my next-of-kin is more frightening than the idea that the government has the ability to spy on me while I'm alive. It's the most morbid kind of subliminal marketing that could possibly exist.

"Hey, we're really sorry about fluxquanta's passing. Here is his private data which he may or may not have wanted you to see (but we'll just assume that he did). Aren't we such a caring company? Since we can no longer count on him to give us more money when our next product comes out, keep us and our incredibly kind gesture of digging through the skeleton closets of the dead in mind when shopping for your next device."

Re: Apple Is Said to Be Working on an iPhone Even It Can’t Hack

#330

Post by tantalor »

geertj wrote: post #316
erkkie wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anything specifically missing on android side except the PR? Seriously asking if I'm missing something. The nexus series has comparable crypto hw and similar options for encryption + wiping.

Two things come to mind. First an equivalent of the secure enclave. Second a single company that is willing to go this far to protect its users. For Samsung this is complicated because both Google and Samsung are involved, and Samsung is not a US company so I'd expect them to cave in under pressure from the US govt more easily. Edit: a Nexus device bought directly from Google with the right hw may address both points…

Looks like the Nexus 5X/6P have ARM TrustZone (http://phandroid.com/2015/09/30/nexus-fingerprint-security/).

Secure Enclave is a variant of TrustZone (http://www.iphoneincanada.ca/iphone-5s/apples-new-secure-enc...).

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