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SoundCloud could be forced to close after $44m losses

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Re: SoundCloud could be forced to close after $44m losses

#321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of the music posted is a single here, a single there - often before official release. Sometimes it isn't weeks until that single (or larger album) is available for purchase. Plus, for the electronic/DJ side of things, many of the tracks posted are remixes which aren't ever for sale (it seems). But from a scale standpoint, you would think that there might be some sort of revenue opportunity there.

I don't see how that changes anything. Post the single with a "Available to buy on " notice. When it's officially released, take down the notice and put up "Buy now" buttons. And there's no reason they have to make every song available for sale or every song that's for sale available for streaming.

Even better, either 'Let me know when it's available' or 'Auto-buy and add to my collection when it's out'.

Re: SoundCloud could be forced to close after $44m losses

#322

Not being able to save tracks for offline use on mobile has been bothering me for a while. Maybe I'm an edge case, but I do a lot of listening while commuting, which means no Internet on the subway here in NYC. That means SoundCloud isn't even an option for me unless I'm at my desk. Also, I can't save a collection of favorite tracks in any meaningful way. I can favorite them, but they quickly get lost in the mobile U…

Yes. I observed case of two media houses making mobile news apps. They both have roughly similar market share in country, and both apps are well working and okay designed.

However, during commute, the ratio of mobile use I observe is roughly 95:5. Why? Because one of the apps automatically downloads all morning news for offline reading at 6am.

Design is how it works.

Re: SoundCloud could be forced to close after $44m losses

#324
post #103

Soundcloud is absolutely ubiquitous in the electronic music community. I was talking about this with a friend recently who is a programmer and a (relatively) well known composer, and she made the point that soundcloud actually represents a very important cultural document; there is tons of music that has been created in the past 5+ years that exists exclusively there, and it would be a tremendous cultural loss if it…

[deleted]

Re: SoundCloud could be forced to close after $44m losses

#325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See also physical books, letters, LPs, etc.' Until relatively recently it wasn't expected that everything would stand the test of time.

But people have been preserving physical books for hundreds, even thousands of years. Physical archives have been a thing for a long time and try to preserve everything from music to letters to government records. Historians often use letters and notes written by people hundreds of years ago, because people often saved that stuff.

Oh Come on. You have never heard of the Library of Alexandria? The day this was gone, we lost one of the largest chunk of older books and parchments. We are talking about a huge collection that went up in flames.

The documents we still have now are just a tiny fraction of what existed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_Alexandria https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destruction_of_the_Library_of_...

Re: SoundCloud could be forced to close after $44m losses

#326
What we need is something that isn't centralized. The problem that needs to be solved is how to pay for the things that you care about but, keep enough in a common pot to not only share the service but, to make systems for discovery.

Soundcloud is awesome. It's needed, it's culturally important but, it doesn't make money. We should stop thinking of things like Soundcloud like business but, more like museums with infinite square footage.

We can pay the artists as patrons directly, we can pay tour guides who show us interesting and amazing things. We have decent micropayments. What's left is the thing that hackers aren't great at, the cultural work of changing public perception.

Most artists just want to eat, pay rent and live well enough to create more art. I love that Soundcloud allowed people to experiment, get good enough to book gigs and then I could see them live.

What we need is a system that does that efficiently. We need a better managerial structure than VCs + Founders. Soundcloud is a pretty solved problem, both technology wise and UI wise. What isn't solved is funding and management.

There are so many services that would be wonderful to have but, will never be $1bn+ exits for anyone.

Twitter should be. IMHO I think it will be eventually.

Every social network gets abandoned once people put up ads. It's pretty crazy that we live in a world where conversation, speech both personal and public are strip-mined for profit.

People will eventually realize that freedom costs something. Thankfully, technology should make that cost in dollars very cheap.

A Facebook scale social network could charge $1/yr and pull in $1.5bn/yr. A decentralized FB-scale network isn't trivial both technically and socially but, it's something that we as hackers should figure out.

A decentralized social network would be a huge win for freedom of speech, thought and information. Facebook already filters everything that people see. It's a centralized, easily subpoena-able entity.

The larger, much harder problem is how do you convince teenage girls to join a service. They are both the heavy users and set the communication norms for the next generation.

The next problem is how do you build something that is wanted by society but, don't do it by setting up a relationship with a VC looking to exit for 100X what they put in.

Once we solve those two issues, social and funding then the world will very quickly become a place where we can build things that are self-sustaining, less link rot, less invasion of privacy, less filtering of thought and speech by centralized powers.

Re: SoundCloud could be forced to close after $44m losses

#327
post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you used something like ipfs, syncthing, or generic torrents you could easily distribute anything you want at large scale at no cost, as long as people were interested in having it. If you choose to centralize distribution on one web server that is your own choice, but the better phrase is "digital distribution is free if you want it to be". I doubt we will see a return to pay-to-listen models in music. Reality ha…

If you used something like ipfs, syncthing, or generic torrents you could easily distribute anything you want at large scale at no cost, as long as people were interested in having it. The problem there of course is the "as long as people were interested in having it" part. You can publish stuff for free on Freenet, but to a first approximation, nobody actually uses Freenet. If a torrent/magnet URI runs out of seeds…

> The problem there of course is the "as long as people were interested in having it" part.

The problem is that ISP are actively trying to constrain torrents with deep packet inspection or ongoing surveillance of other centralized bodies. Torrents would see a much more widespread use if such barriers were removed.

> The UX of peer-to-peer file sharing will always be more complex than "go to this WWW URL" if just to avoid the free-rider/spam problem.

For the end user, clicking on a torrent has zero UX issues. That's why torrents took off so easily in the first place, and why they still exist nowadays.

Re: SoundCloud could be forced to close after $44m losses

#328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But people have been preserving physical books for hundreds, even thousands of years. Physical archives have been a thing for a long time and try to preserve everything from music to letters to government records. Historians often use letters and notes written by people hundreds of years ago, because people often saved that stuff.

Oh Come on. You have never heard of the Library of Alexandria? The day this was gone, we lost one of the largest chunk of older books and parchments. We are talking about a huge collection that went up in flames. The documents we still have now are just a tiny fraction of what existed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_Alexandria https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destruction_of_the_Library_of_...

That was over a thousand years ago. And it even proves my point that people in the past did try to preserve things.

Re: SoundCloud could be forced to close after $44m losses

#329
post #103

Soundcloud is absolutely ubiquitous in the electronic music community. I was talking about this with a friend recently who is a programmer and a (relatively) well known composer, and she made the point that soundcloud actually represents a very important cultural document; there is tons of music that has been created in the past 5+ years that exists exclusively there, and it would be a tremendous cultural loss if it…

I have a techno song on my computer that I downloaded at least 5 years ago, I think maybe 2009? I remember downloading the song when I was trying to pirate a copy of Fruity Loops Studio.

I recently came back upon it and couldn't find it on the internet, so I uploaded it to YouTube for posterity [0].

It's amazing that in something so massive like the internet, a single mp3 file can be almost lost forever. It really shows how important sites like archive.org are.

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1phpSqAjgY

Re: SoundCloud could be forced to close after $44m losses

#330
post #103

Soundcloud is absolutely ubiquitous in the electronic music community. I was talking about this with a friend recently who is a programmer and a (relatively) well known composer, and she made the point that soundcloud actually represents a very important cultural document; there is tons of music that has been created in the past 5+ years that exists exclusively there, and it would be a tremendous cultural loss if it…

When Grooveshark shut down, I lost some fantastic artists. There was a low-distraction music station for programmers [writhem radio] I would listen to, which was gaining some popularity and would have music guests DJ their new stuff. When Grooveshark died, that set of original music spun by the DJs was essentially lost- which sucked because that was my go-to for "work music". I've only started to find the tracks agai…

Writhem is still around. After Grooveshark, they moved to plug.dj, which then got shut down.

Now a couple of them are developing their own solution. I sorta stopped following them after a while, but you've reminded me to check their progress.

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