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My positive experience as a woman in tech

lea.verou.me

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Re: My positive experience as a woman in tech

#321

Post by scintill76 »

meowface wrote: post #102
scintill76 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This feminist wiki says, "Any form of 'fuck' that assumes penetration is a bad thing for the receptive partner" is misogynist[1]. So I guess something like "Yeah, they really fucked us over on that one." could have been what he said, and it would be misogynistic and thus makes sense to be something that shouldn't be said around women especially. The next step is to eliminate saying it around men too, because misogyny…

That seems like a bit of a strawman and overgeneralization. I personally think offense over "fuck", "fork", or "dongle" is absurd (beyond typical professionalism/politeness standards), but this is one branch of feminism finding "fuck" offensive, and in the "dongle" incident, one single woman who found it offensive at the time. Obviously not all women find these things offensive. Not all people (women or otherwise) us…

I'm surprised my comment was actually somewhat popular, so it may well have been interpreted differently than I meant. I was intending to sarcastically take the position that one feminist website is a rulebook for everyone, because that's how people seriously act all the time. The woman in the dongle fiasco believed that because she was offended, everyone should be, and the conference organizers apparently agreed. She had plenty of supporters -- was it really just "one single woman"? Maybe it's a bad example, because as the situation evolved she was being attacked (and in response, supported) more as a woman than as a professional maintaining certain standards. But I do believe a substantial chunk supported her position itself, a complaint primarily about sexism.

On the other hand, the OP herself is in the gray (for now at least) for saying dick jokes are fine and the only sexism there is the lack of vulva jokes.[1]

The fact that there is no rulebook was exactly my point. For every person wanting to analyze whether your anatomical/sexual reference is offensive to someone, there is someone else feeling singled out that you would take that care before saying it in front of them. I don't want to throw up my hands and give up, just point out that people act like the answers are easy but it's actually very complex. There's little consensus on proper behavior on these small scales, and both sides have tribal and exclusionary behaviors.

Behavior of today's college students, in the US at least, suggests the Tumblr generation is growing and therefore a sizable contingent of people really will increasingly apply these standards to everyone else.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10760819 (you have to go up to parent to see the grayness, and I'm assuming it's the OP because she claimed so in another comment and has a sufficiently-aged account with the same name as the website)

Re: My positive experience as a woman in tech

#322

Post by scintill76 »

leaverou wrote: post #303
scintill76 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if the reason she was "singled out" was actually that she was the only person the swearer didn't know well enough to feel OK about swearing around? Or was the only one he considered to be in earshot? Or she was just the closest and he felt he should make some gesture because he regretted it, but it wasn't bad enough to personally apologize to every last person? I guess the author's impression trumps ours (and on…

Nope. There were many people around, and it was clear that he didn’t know all of them. There were people he didn't know just as close as I was. He apologized only to me, nobody else.

Thanks for the clarification. If you don't mind sharing more and if you remember, what was the exact usage of the word? It seems like some of them could be construed as sexist, as I referred to in another comment. So maybe that was why he was apologizing. I assume you didn't think it was sexist (or you would have said so), but maybe he was concerned it could be interpreted that way.

(If that's the case, he shouldn't have said it regardless of who was around, but once he said it, apologizing with some amount of sincerity would be better than not apologizing.)

Re: My positive experience as a woman in tech

#323

Post by CaptSpify »

Tycho wrote: post #273
CaptSpify wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm the same way with you, but that's also why I don't go to coffee shops to study/think. I'm simplifying and assuming a lot here, but: Why would you go out to a place like that for "alone time"?

I kind of like the background noise for some reason. It wouldn't surprise me if our brains evolved to be most relaxedness and free from other worries when surrounded by other humans, making it a good setting for doing some studying or whatever.

I can see that. I personally prefer music, but I've definitely heard of people turning on the tv for "background chatter" when they live alone.

My point is though: By putting yourself in a public setting, you are more likely to be approached. I don't want to say "asking to be approached", but I'm not sure how else to articulate my thought |:)

I wouldn't be shocked if a stranger approached me in a coffee-shop. I would be if they approached me in my home!

Re: My positive experience as a woman in tech

#324

Post by dang »

reitanqild wrote: post #153

Don't see why this was flagged. It us a well known fact that a lot of women thrive in tech. I've said this to many times already but I've been told by women how much they enjoy working with men because we are so straightforward. Edit: that said, didn't vote at all on this one, but flagged to death? No.

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10758571 and marked it off-topic.

(Some users have flagged that comment while others have vouched for it. It is currently not flagged.)

Re: My positive experience as a woman in tech

#325

Post by leaverou »

scintill76 wrote: post #322
leaverou wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope. There were many people around, and it was clear that he didn’t know all of them. There were people he didn't know just as close as I was. He apologized only to me, nobody else.

Thanks for the clarification. If you don't mind sharing more and if you remember, what was the exact usage of the word? It seems like some of them could be construed as sexist, as I referred to in another comment. So maybe that was why he was apologizing. I assume you didn't think it was sexist (or you would have said so), but maybe he was concerned it could be interpreted that way. (If that's the case, he shouldn't…

It's been years but I think it was just exclamation. Like "oh, fuck!".

Re: My positive experience as a woman in tech

#326

Post by wfo »

Lawtonfogle wrote: post #113
pervycreeper wrote: post #94

Blackstone's formulation for those who didn't bother to click through: >"It is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer" Wise to keep this in mind if you wish to be justice-conscious.

Given 11 people who each have a 90.9% chance of having significantly harmed a child and the option to release all or jail all, how many would be for releasing all of them? I find that most people don't follow Blackstone's formulation in practice. Maybe if it was 1 guilty person, but not 10.

It depends on how accurately describe the punishment you are meting out, and very much on the words you use. Given 11 people who you suspect 90.9% chance of having significantly harmed a child and the option to let them live free until you're absolutely certain they are guilty or lock them all in cages to be repeatedly beaten and raped for years at a time without being sure first, which would you pick?

Re: My positive experience as a woman in tech

#327

Post by [deleted] »

golergka wrote: post #48

> It’s impossible to know, especially since they don’t know either! If you confront them on their sexism, they will deny all of it, and truly believe it. It takes a lot of introspection to see one’s internalized stereotypes. Therefore, a lot of the time, you cannot be sure if you have experienced sexist behavior, and there is no way to find out for sure, since the perpetrator doesn’t know either. There are many false…

[deleted]

Re: My positive experience as a woman in tech

#328

Post by throwaway999888 »

lloyd-christmas wrote: post #242
kelukelugames wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you really think it's okay to make dick jokes in the workplace?

My female Australian boss says "dumb cunts" roughly 5x a day in reference to some 22 year old marketing "woo"-girls down the hall. I just made a comment about how my balls hang down my left pant leg. In my prior job, I'd never even bring up politics. It's almost as if people and environments are different.

It would seem more abnormal if you knew an Australian that didn't use the word cunt liberally.

Re: My positive experience as a woman in tech

#329

Post by isolate »

[deleted] wrote: post #327
golergka wrote: post #48

> It’s impossible to know, especially since they don’t know either! If you confront them on their sexism, they will deny all of it, and truly believe it. It takes a lot of introspection to see one’s internalized stereotypes. Therefore, a lot of the time, you cannot be sure if you have experienced sexist behavior, and there is no way to find out for sure, since the perpetrator doesn’t know either. There are many false…

[deleted]

Stereotyping is impossible to avoid and even healthy. Humans survive because of stereotypes. We need summary judgments to function; this is the core of translating perception into thought. The problem is when people willfully ignore signals to look past the stereotype.

If you think that every person you meet alone on the street in any city on the planet is equally dangerous or equally safe regardless of what you observe, prior to any actual violent behavior, either one day you're going to get hurt, or you're not going to visit any dangerous places.

Re: My positive experience as a woman in tech

#330

Post by throwaway999888 »

pron wrote: post #216
yummyfajitas wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it sexism to make assumptions that are probabilistically correct? Consider the following procedure: 1) For a woman I don't know, I buy her frozen yogurt. 2) For a man I don't know, I buy him pizza. Now suppose my stereotypes are actually accurate - i.e., P(likes froyo > pizza|woman) > 0.5 and P(likes pizza > froyo | man) > 0.5. This procedure, based purely on stereotypes, will make everyone happier than flipping a…

I know you're just doing your normal schtick of incorrectly assuming that everyone else is stupid (obviously no one, including blowski, thinks "to not be sexist, you need to ignore information and make worse decisions"), but this time you have accidentally stumbled on an interesting point. I know you don't care one way or another, but for the sake of other readers, I'd like to point it out(and BTW, your specific exam…

I guess the conclusion to yummyfajitas' scenario then is to not give a woman frozen yogurt or pizza, but broccoli or spinach instead.
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