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Mozilla Will Stop Developing and Selling Firefox OS Smartphones

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Re: Mozilla Will Stop Developing and Selling Firefox OS Smartphones

#321

Post by criddell »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #314
criddell wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good point. Still, any AOSP fork needs to track Google's version only if they want to run applications built for Google's version of Android. The first iteration of Firefox's mobile OS didn't run any Android apps so it would be no loss if their fork of AOSP also didn't run Android apps. That's why I would suggest renaming so that people don't think they can install Android apps.

The question then is... why would you build on Android? It's not exactly the zippiest platform around these days. The primary pain point for alternative platforms like Windows Phone or any other "third OS" is the lack of apps. Which is the case for keeping compatibility. If you're going to drop it, why not at least focus on a more performant core to your platform? Also, currently Android has been ruled as copyright i…

> It's not exactly the zippiest platform around these days.

It's zippy enough, especially when you look at all the different platforms it works on. It's pretty far behind iOS, but then iOS has only a few platforms to worry about. Android is probably good enough especially when you factor in power consumption.

In the end though, it's all about trade-offs. Going with an Android fork gives you a pretty solid base to build off of. It's a nice option for app developers because the tools for Android development are excellent and the OS is well understood.

Re: Mozilla Will Stop Developing and Selling Firefox OS Smartphones

#322

Post by rockdoe »

bronson wrote: post #309
rockdoe wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would be the point of doing that? They just ported it to GTK3, which is what the major distros actually ship.

To get rid of XUL of course, which is a big reason the memo says it's being canceled. (Might be the biggest reason, since it's mentioned first, but the memo wanders around and is pretty vague on exactly what the problems are)

XUL sits on top of a toolkit like Qt or GTK. There's Qt ports of Firefox FWIW (which are still XUL based), or at least there were when Nokia was still a thing.

Re: Mozilla Will Stop Developing and Selling Firefox OS Smartphones

#323

Post by rockdoe »

criddell wrote: post #311
rockdoe wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The internet is pretty fine, except for a prevalence of webkit only sites on mobile.

Do you really think so? What are some of the best internet apps? I think a native app will always give a better experience because they can always just contain a browser view (it's basically a superset). Plus native code will always be more efficient and in mobile, that matters.

A native app is already lost at the start because it requires the user to install it. Also at least on Android I don't buy the efficiency argument at all, Java and JavaScript are both JITed. You think Java JITs better than asm.js?

The integration argument is decent, but it's only really relevant for apps that get a lot of use, not the long tail of stuff that you use once or twice.

Re: Mozilla Will Stop Developing and Selling Firefox OS Smartphones

#324

Post by criddell »

rockdoe wrote: post #323
criddell wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you really think so? What are some of the best internet apps? I think a native app will always give a better experience because they can always just contain a browser view (it's basically a superset). Plus native code will always be more efficient and in mobile, that matters.

A native app is already lost at the start because it requires the user to install it. Also at least on Android I don't buy the efficiency argument at all, Java and JavaScript are both JITed. You think Java JITs better than asm.js? The integration argument is decent, but it's only really relevant for apps that get a lot of use, not the long tail of stuff that you use once or twice.

> A native app is already lost at the start because it requires the user to install it

The billions of installed apps indicates that the friction isn't significant.

> I don't buy the efficiency argument at all, Java and JavaScript are both JITed

That's how everything worked back in the Gingerbread days. Android's ART system compiles applications to native code when they are installed. You can also install actual native code with Android's NDK.

If you like the idea of asm.js, then you should check out Go on Android. It does the same thing - offers a restricted set of the language that runs very fast.

There's definitely a subset of apps that work very well in a browser. But you can do more, faster, with lower power consumption with native apps.

Re: Mozilla Will Stop Developing and Selling Firefox OS Smartphones

#325

Post by bronson »

rockdoe wrote: post #322
bronson wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To get rid of XUL of course, which is a big reason the memo says it's being canceled. (Might be the biggest reason, since it's mentioned first, but the memo wanders around and is pretty vague on exactly what the problems are)

XUL sits on top of a toolkit like Qt or GTK. There's Qt ports of Firefox FWIW (which are still XUL based), or at least there were when Nokia was still a thing.

Have you read Mitchell's memo? The point is to get rid of XUL.

Re: Mozilla Will Stop Developing and Selling Firefox OS Smartphones

#326

Post by StavrosK »

DHowett wrote: post #231
StavrosK wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's my impression as well. A friend and I created a pastebin as a fun weekend project this weekend ( https://www.pastery.net/ ) and we used Persona for auth, since it's so damn convenient. The only problem is that it loads a bunch of files on every request, and my questions about lazy-loading went unanswered. I really wish Mozilla would change their mind and start developing this again. It feels like they expected…

Incidentally, I launched a pastebin ( https://ghostbin.com/ ) some time ago, used Persona for authentication, and absolutely loved it. Pastery looks awesome. It appears that you're using Pygments server-side?

That looks fantastic! I love what you've done with the UI. We do use Pygments, yep, same as you, looks like :)

I don't think I'd have started Pastery if I'd seen Ghostbin, as I was looking for a pastebin that wasn't ugly, and I hadn't found any that qualified.

Have you had any abuse problems at all?

Re: Mozilla Will Stop Developing and Selling Firefox OS Smartphones

#327

Post by [deleted] »

notsony wrote: post #147
gkoberger wrote: post #9

Firefox appeared at a time when there was huge potential being stifled by a stagnant monopoly in the space, and people were desperate for something good. It filled a real need, and people loved it. FirefoxOS appeared at a time when there was huge potential being actively being pushed forward and innovated on by the two largest tech companies in the space, and people already had two great options to choose from. It fi…

Bring back Brendan Eich ?

[deleted]

Re: Mozilla Will Stop Developing and Selling Firefox OS Smartphones

#328

Post by pcwalton »

anonyfox wrote: post #300

Thunderbird: stopped. FirefoxOS: stopped. Rust: as nice as the language is, I can see it become irrelevant in the rise of Swift (and tons of developers already using and praising it). so the last thing that remains is the very core of mozilla: firefox. But then version 42 hit me, disabled the support for custom themes, leaving me alone with a crappy UI I can't stand any longer to the point I uninstalled Firefox forev…

> Rust: as nice as the language is, I can see it become irrelevant in the rise of Swift (and tons of developers already using and praising it).

How are Rust and Swift in the same language niche at all?

Re: Mozilla Will Stop Developing and Selling Firefox OS Smartphones

#329

Post by r-w »

rsync wrote: post #246
DHowett wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Incidentally, I launched a pastebin ( https://ghostbin.com/ ) some time ago, used Persona for authentication, and absolutely loved it. Pastery looks awesome. It appears that you're using Pygments server-side?

Serious question for you and your parent: Why would a pastebin site need auth/login/userids ? All I can think of is editing pastes, but isn't it easier to just create a new (anonymous) paste instead of editing ?

Preventing inundation with pastes. This is less of a problem for a small project like this compared to one of the major sites, whose server architecture is probably more robust.

Re: Mozilla Will Stop Developing and Selling Firefox OS Smartphones

#330

Post by mrottenkolber »

Good riddance. Firefox OS was a technical disaster. It was vulnerable by design as it had no capabilities for updating Gecko. I had hopes for it, and I will happily continue to use my first generation ZTE (70 bucks) FxOS phone, but I am happy they are no longer sold.

Distribution of the OS was a reckless debacle and, from the perspective of a non-technical customer, fraud, if you ask me.

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