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State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

theguardian.com

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Re: State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

#321

Post by d4rkph1b3r »

jacquesm wrote: post #235
tomatioaz wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A French news channel, BFMTV, reported that an attacker shouted Allahu akbar.

I don't doubt that. But that still does not mean that being a Muslim has anything to do with it. In fact, even if it turns out that all of the attackers were Muslims then that still holds true. How that works I'll leave as an exercise for you to work out but let's just say that the basis of a solution to this whole problem is somewhere in there and that I strongly believe that it starts with a complete lack of genera…

I see your point. Not that long ago a white supremacist shot up a black church in the name of America and Christianity but we aren't condemning everyone in those groups. However it would be fair to condemn the small society (ghetto if you will) that allowed this to happen. In the same way I can blame the anti-integration Muslims without blaming Islam itself.

Re: State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

#323

Post by younes0 »

celticninja wrote: post #24
Gatsky wrote: post #9

A disaster. Obviously don't know yet who is responsible, but I don't understand why France is being targeted in this way. They are hardly terrorist enemy number one.

There are a lot of poor French Muslim men who are disaffected and marginalised. It is a target because it is where the terrorists are from.

Yeah, they have healthcare, basic income and free university, still they choose mediocrity and ignorance. Fuck them

Re: State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

#324

Post by nkoren »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #221
Houshalter wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does intention matter?

> Terrorist acts damage the social fabric far beyond the death toll. Intention is all that matters , and why its attempting to damage social fabric.

So if I intend to kill you horribly, but instead serve you a nice cup of chamomile tea and a comfy pair of slippers, is intention still all that matters?

I'm not trying to be flip. I'm saying that by any viable moral theory, you are catastrophically wrong.

Re: State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

#325

Post by yarper »

rtz12 wrote: post #283
oblio wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Madrid_train_bombings https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_July_2005_London_bombings

Well, I was thinking a little bit more recently.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Norway_attacks

Re: State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

#326

Post by fukusa »

CountSessine wrote: post #254
fukusa wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To anybody with basic reasoning capabilities. There are millions of Muslims in France. You could try to make it look like Islam is the cause of all this, but that would be hard to prove.

And that's your argument? Negative correlation based on your own incredulity? The terrorists themselves claim a religious muslim tradition. The best you have is that they're brainwashed victims, because, well, there's lots of other muslims who don't become terrorists? You have no basic reasoning capabilities yourself. At least the poster you were responding to had a correlation. You have nothing.

All terrorists are humans. That's a correlation just like all terrorists are Muslims. Maybe you should continue narrowing it down to a more specific cause/group instead of spreading this hatred against Muslims in general.

Re: State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

#327

Post by jacquesm »

obituary_latte wrote: post #289
jacquesm wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> maybe it will also have a side-effect of uniting people and countries against a common threat to all humanity. I don't think that will happen. Remember "Je suis Charlie"? How long did that sentiment last? It's a matter of time before people will be writing 'Je suis Francais', and then promptly forget it a few days or weeks later.

What a shitty outlook. Even worse is that I agree. Can we do anything to change it?

That is the million dollar question. And it's a hard one. I believe that yes, we can do something but I don't believe there is a magical incantation or a simple and short thing that we can do. It will take many years (decades) to slowly un-wind this mess and in the meantime it could get a lot worse and that lone might be enough to lose the plot on any plan that isn't perceived as a silver bullet but that actually has a chance of working.

Re: State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

#328

Post by jessriedel »

cballard wrote: post #269
cataflam wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's possible even with Schengen. A clause in the Schengen convention (in article 2.2) authorizes states to reinstate border checks in exceptional circumstances. > Where there is a serious threat to public policy or internal security, these countries may exceptionally reintroduce border controls at its internal borders for a period of no more than 30 days (possible to prolong under conditions established by the code)…

No, I get that it's legal. But there's no... border. In the map link I posted, you wouldn't be able to tell half of the satellite view was Belgium without Google telling you that's the case. How do you close that down, especially in the middle of the night? The US can't even do it in places with a wall.

Presumably you close this border like every border: by placing guards wherever lines of transportation (e.g. roads) cross it. Yes, without a physical wall this means people can in principle walk across the border by passing through private property, forests, etc., but in practice this is very inefficient and conspicuous.

Re: State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

#329

Post by [deleted] »

cballard wrote: post #269
cataflam wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's possible even with Schengen. A clause in the Schengen convention (in article 2.2) authorizes states to reinstate border checks in exceptional circumstances. > Where there is a serious threat to public policy or internal security, these countries may exceptionally reintroduce border controls at its internal borders for a period of no more than 30 days (possible to prolong under conditions established by the code)…

No, I get that it's legal. But there's no... border. In the map link I posted, you wouldn't be able to tell half of the satellite view was Belgium without Google telling you that's the case. How do you close that down, especially in the middle of the night? The US can't even do it in places with a wall.

[deleted]

Re: State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

#330

Post by Keyframe »

ghostDancer wrote: post #55
ps4fanboy wrote: post #4

With the amount of Syrian/Afghan refugees flooding into Europe right now and Europes involvement in those wars, I imagine this sort of thing is going to be on the rise.

Most of the refugees are running from this kind of people but in their own country.

Problem is screening for who's who.
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