Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Plastc Card

plastc.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

311–320 of 356 posts

Re: Plastc Card

#311

Post by larvaetron »

staz wrote: post #294
koliber wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Add in a driver's license, three more credit cards to take advantage of various bonus point offers which depend on what and where you buy things, a corporate credit card, corporate access key car, and three loyalty cards for the supermarkets where you shop most often. Now imagine you have a birthday party and your six of your friends give you gift cards to various stores and restaurants. I've been minimizing my walle…

Gift card for restaurants? It's that seriously a thing? What message are you supposed to get when you receive one, "I would like to offer you dinner but can't spare one hour to eat it with you"?

You've never heard of a raffle prize or a grab gift?

Re: Plastc Card

#312

Post by rohansingh »

TranquilMarmot wrote: post #309
bradfa wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. If the eInk screen uses the card plastic in place of the glass which usually backs such a screen, it can easily be thin enough for a credit card form factor. Touch screen digitizing can be done resistively with overlaid wires over the screen. Their touch interface doesn't have to be super accurate, you only seem to touch in a few distinct locations. A microcontroller is already inside every chip and pin card on…

The only part that actually has to be as thin as a credit card is the part with the magnetic strip. Below that (where the screen is), it could be as thick as they need and still be swipeable. So they could shove the battery, charging coils, etc. behind the touch screen.

Not the case. For chip-and-PIN cards, the entire part of the card containing the chip needs to be inserted into a reader, as in this example: https://i.imgur.com/0nn5lpo.jpg

Re: Plastc Card

#313

Post by Nursie »

glitch wrote: post #72
richbradshaw wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's exactly what I came here to say - if this can do chip and PIN, then can't we assume chip and PIN is broken? Cloning a mag stripe is trivial, cloning chip and PIN should be as close to impossible as is feasible.

For the record, Chip and PIN is kind of broken... • "Chip and PIN is Broken" (Murdoch/Drimer/Anderson/Bond, 2010) [PDF] http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~sjm217/papers/oakland10chipbroken.p... • "Chip and PIN is Broken" (Murdoch, 27C3, 2010) [Video]: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ks_w352BS-Q • "Chip & PIN is definitely broken" (Barisani/Bianco/Laurie/Franken, 2011) [Video]: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JABJlvrZWbY ...and s…

It is. It's easy to see there are ways that cards and terminals can be set up badly. It also looks like there are ways that both ends can be set up correctly to get around most of the problems.

And cloning is still almost impossible. The largest risk appears to be copying card details which allows the fraudster to use cards online or in countries that don't yet have Chip and PIN. Personally I would like to see separate account numbers and details on the Chip compared to the main card number - i.e. you could copy some of the chip details but this wouldn't actually let you get anywhere because the number would immediately be flagged if it was found anywhere else. You'd then have another card number (maybe the one actually printed on the card) that you could use online.

Or perhaps we could just scrap the whole card thing for non-physical use...

(And I'm saying this as a guy who makes some of his money at this game)

Re: Plastc Card

#314

Post by reacocard »

robin_reala wrote: post #281
jrockway wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't, actually. Consider things like the ATMs that suck in the entire card, or things like Metrocard vending machines that require you to insert the credit card in a slot.

Cash machines have to deal with raised numerals. You could at least make it as thick as card + raised digits all over.

Not quite - many ATMs I've seen size the slot so the raised numbers only go in one place so you can't insert the card the wrong way around.

Re: Plastc Card

#315

Post by Nursie »

mholmes680 wrote: post #73
Barfo wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Smart cards (and NFC) are designed to make it nearly impossible to extract the private key/encryption keys.

famous last words....

EMV has been out in the wild since the late 90s. So far all the attacks I've read about (and some of them are very serious attacks!) are to do with the protocol between card, terminal and acquirer. None that I'm aware of has yet exposed a private key, with the possible exception of one that required an electron microscope.

They are famous last words, but in this case they seem justified.

Re: Plastc Card

#317

Post by Nursie »

TranquilMarmot wrote: post #309
bradfa wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. If the eInk screen uses the card plastic in place of the glass which usually backs such a screen, it can easily be thin enough for a credit card form factor. Touch screen digitizing can be done resistively with overlaid wires over the screen. Their touch interface doesn't have to be super accurate, you only seem to touch in a few distinct locations. A microcontroller is already inside every chip and pin card on…

The only part that actually has to be as thin as a credit card is the part with the magnetic strip. Below that (where the screen is), it could be as thick as they need and still be swipeable. So they could shove the battery, charging coils, etc. behind the touch screen.

Many devices (ATM in particular) have motorised readers that swallow the whole card.

And the other poster pointed out correctly that for chip reading effectively 50% of the card needs to be that thin. You'd end up with a huge lump in the lower right of the card if you were going to play that game...

Re: Plastc Card

#318

Post by fataliss »

Like a lot of my fellow news hacker I preordered coin and was still waiting for it until today. Today I asked a refund. Between Apple Pay, Bitcoins and all the other payments technologies coming up I'm less and less convinced that my problem is to carry 2 cards in my wallet. I realized that my problem is to have to carry a wallet. I might end up buying the Coin or this fancy Plastc, but really I don't need it at all.

Re: Plastc Card

#319

Post by syncsynchalt »

staz wrote: post #213
mattmaroon wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a lot of cards. Between gift cards, loyalty cards, and credit cards, I have at least 20-30 that I'd like to carry on me. I end up leaving cards I don't use every day in my car (and am always paranoid about the valet as a result). I use a KeyRing app for loyalty cards, but it's a pain and requires me often typing numbers into things. I often find myself in a Starbucks, realizing I left the Starbucks gift card i…

I don't get how you can end up with so many cards, it's seems like a very american problem. I have 5 cards in my wallet: * Debit card and a Visa credit card: both with chip&pin and allowing me to do secure transaction on the internet * A public transport card: RFC, also allow me to rent bikes * An ID card, also with a chip&pin, allow me to sign documents and fill my taxes * An insurance card which is not even a magne…

Yes, it's an American thing. In the US every retail entity that you interact with will offer you discounts to scan a plastic card in addition to your credit card (it allows them to trend you as a consistent customer for their data modeling, send you targeted advertising, and so on).

If you want to take advantage of these discounts, you build a significant stack of plastic.

Re: Plastc Card

#320

Post by syncsynchalt »

JTon wrote: post #149
mattmaroon wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a lot of cards. Between gift cards, loyalty cards, and credit cards, I have at least 20-30 that I'd like to carry on me. I end up leaving cards I don't use every day in my car (and am always paranoid about the valet as a result). I use a KeyRing app for loyalty cards, but it's a pain and requires me often typing numbers into things. I often find myself in a Starbucks, realizing I left the Starbucks gift card i…

For loyalty cards, why not use passbook or equivalent?

Passbook only supports 2d codes, not 1d codes (UPC-style codes) or mag stripes that you typically find on loyalty cards.
Post reply on HN