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Elon Musk: To the People of New Jersey

teslamotors.com

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Re: Elon Musk: To the People of New Jersey

#311

Post by declan »

revelation wrote: post #306
declan wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Paternalistic meddling with free consumer choices is always fraught with peril. Actually I'd say that governments typically get away with paternalistic medding with free consumer choices. Elon Musk has the right of this argument, and it's heartening to see a CEO take aim at the politicians that are doing that paternalistic meddling. But I don't see Tesla's CEO fighting back against paternalistic governmental meddlin…

Conventional gas cars produce massive negative externalities that, if not accounted for (by charging any of the parties indirectly or directly involved in producing them), lead to market inefficiencies. The very nature of externalities makes it that they are very difficult to accurately measure, but rest assured, whatever extra cost new CAFE standards bring is not merely a drop in the bucket for the damage already pr…

Even if you're right about the "massive negative externalities," what makes you think the government's Absolutely Non-Paternalistic Meddling here gets it right?

Also, even Absolutely Non-Paternalistic Meddling can lead to other massive negative externalities by significantly increasing the cost of new cars (see my link above). Then consumers are less likely to purchase newer cars that, all else being equal, tend to be safer. So we have more deaths.

So, again, even if you're right about these "massive negative externalities," presumably meaning environmental effects, does that justify killing your fellow citizens by dooming the less affluent to drive older, less-safe cars?

Re: Elon Musk: To the People of New Jersey

#312

Post by tmzt »

batoure wrote: post #209
sp332 wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here is the changelog: http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showwiki.php?title=Model%20S%... These changes sound worthwhile to me, even if the mechanism is creepy.

Also just think; how long did it take for the first iphone jailbreaks to come out, cydia for your car. Alternately replaceable ROM's for your car a la android. Where there is a closed eco system there are 100 people just staring at their computers until they figure out how to break it wide open.

If the separation between the UI and the backend electronics (the stuff that would be critical to safety) was strong enough, Tesla could even embrace a hackable UI portion of their system. It would be up to you if the Bluetooth phone worked, or if the climate controls worked, or if any other feature worked on the main display. (I assume the cluster display would be controlled by a different virtualized process.)

Of course Tesla would still supply a standard UI that the vast majority of people would use, but it could be forked on Github if you preferred. (I assume that third-party apps would be separated.)

For all the 'speculation' about Apple merging with Tesla, acquiring a significant portion of Blackberry/QNX would be a better choice. Detroit could end up buying their interactivity from a subsidiary of Tesla.

Re: Elon Musk: To the People of New Jersey

#313

Post by jotm »

ssmoot wrote: post #79
peeters wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does the distribution mechanism in itself affect the quality? It's just a way of getting new software on the car. You can have the exact same standards of quality for an update installed over the air as one installed at a service centre.

Except at a service center there's presumably the opportunity to replace the firmware chip or board if they brick it during the update whereas a bad OTA update leaves you little option. OTOH I'd risk a bad OTA update 1% of the time if it meant avoiding the service center the other 99% of the time. And I'm sure a bad update is just a call and a tow away from a fix at a Tesla service center. Unless you're on a road-tri…

They could make the previous firmware easily restorable - like the BIOS on post-2008 computers - all of them have a shadow copy that can be restored if the new BIOS does not work. Hold two buttons and start the car or something :-)

Re: Elon Musk: To the People of New Jersey

#314

Post by hrjet »

bane wrote: post #233

The truth is, car dealerships, which are mostly locally owned, are a way for a state to boost revenue capture and generate jobs. In New Jersey, not being able to pump your own gas is the same deal. Look at the economics of a Tesla dealership, for every car sold in New Jersey, how much of that money stays in New Jersey? And let's be honest, being a car salesman is not the most lucrative or respectable of trades. The j…

> The truth is, car dealerships, which are mostly locally owned, are a way for a state to boost revenue capture and generate jobs. In New Jersey, not being able to pump your own gas is the same deal.

That can be said to be true about everything. Why allow online software sales, or Amazon purchases? Force them to have local BNM shops.

Re: Elon Musk: To the People of New Jersey

#315

Post by Crito »

ghshephard wrote: post #297
stcredzero wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are all sorts of laws on the books that we've agreed are idiotic and are no longer enforced. It's up to the executive to determine which those ones are, and, as time progresses, some laws become so outdated that no rational minded person would ever think of enforcing them. Europeans (mostly Germans) I've talked to about how we do this in the US shake their heads. These shenanigans along with the "speed limit+9m…

Just to clarify for any europeans who might have read this, ""speed limit+9mph" informal rule " - is a rule (at least in California) for what your minimum speed on the freeway/highway should politely be. Anybody traveling slower than this needs to be in the slower right lanes to avoid getting tailgated or inspiring road rage. I've often wondered if anybody traveling at (or just over) the speed limit on the freeway ha…

Some states have laws that restrict use of left lanes for passing. Many states have laws requiring drivers who are moving slower than the rest of the traffic, regardless of the speed limit, to keep right.

Most of the time if somebody is going the speed limit for any length of time in the left lane, there often is legitimately is an issue that they can be ticketed for.

http://www.mit.edu/~jfc/right.html

Re: Elon Musk: To the People of New Jersey

#316

Post by ZeGoggles »

"The rationale given for the regulation change that requires auto companies to sell through dealers is that it ensures “consumer protection”. If you believe this, Gov. Christie has a bridge closure he wants to sell you! Unless they are referring to the mafia version of “protection”, this is obviously untrue."

This is weird. Really weird. It's raw and exaggerated...almost a cartoon. I'd believe this is raw Elon Musk, but why is someone letting raw Elon Musk define this campaign? Remember raw Bill Gates? Did we learn nothing from that? Or maybe we learned a lot. And "we" have developed an affinity--a need--for the brash genius.

I'm probabilistically wrong--Tesla's doing well. But something about this appeal, the wording, makes me react atavistically, "Go fuck yourself. Nothing is obvious."

I had an argument here, but it didn't seem important, so whatever. Dogecoin and such. Also hyperloop. But really, hyperloop. But remember, I was right about New Jersey. Poor New Jersey.

Re: Elon Musk: To the People of New Jersey

#317

Post by Crito »

JoshTriplett wrote: post #292
kabdib wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless you're on a motorcycle. Then none of the attendants want to deal with you -- they hand you the gas pump nozzle and you do the filling. I don't know what the party line is to justify the gas attendant rules. If it's "consumer safety" then it's bullshit.

> I don't know what the party line is to justify the gas attendant rules. Blatant employment protectionism. Every time it comes up on a ballot the "statement in favor" is always primarily employment protectionism. The arguments are generally of the form "if we allowed self service, nobody would pay for full service, and those jobs would go away". As with many similarly obnoxious laws: Portland votes for it, the rest…

Who actually lobbies for it? I can't imagine that gas station attendants themselves have much sway, and I don't see why station owners would want to keep it that way.

Is it just regular old people in Portland who honestly believe it is best, even without any lobbying or propaganda?

Re: Elon Musk: To the People of New Jersey

#318

Post by Crito »

Xylakant wrote: post #257
jack-r-abbit wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure the Leaf is a fine vehicle. But I see them directed at two different audiences. That logic would also question why get a Porsche 911 when you can get a VW Beetle for a fraction of the price? They are both German engineered gas vehicles, after all.

Fun fact: The Beetle was originally designed by Ferdinand Porsche, so you'd even drive a "real" Porsche in both cases.

Not to mention that 911s look like smooshed Beetles anyway. I kid, I kid...

Re: Elon Musk: To the People of New Jersey

#320

Post by Crito »

hrjet wrote: post #314
bane wrote: post #233

The truth is, car dealerships, which are mostly locally owned, are a way for a state to boost revenue capture and generate jobs. In New Jersey, not being able to pump your own gas is the same deal. Look at the economics of a Tesla dealership, for every car sold in New Jersey, how much of that money stays in New Jersey? And let's be honest, being a car salesman is not the most lucrative or respectable of trades. The j…

> The truth is, car dealerships, which are mostly locally owned, are a way for a state to boost revenue capture and generate jobs. In New Jersey, not being able to pump your own gas is the same deal. That can be said to be true about everything. Why allow online software sales, or Amazon purchases? Force them to have local BNM shops.

Or hell, computers. Why is Apple allowed to have Apple stores in New Jersey, but Tesla is not allowed to have Tesla stores?
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