NSA infiltrates links to Yahoo, Google data centers worldwide • Hacker News Board

Re: NSA infiltrates links to Yahoo, Google data centers worldwide

#311

Post by allochthon » Wed, Oct 30, 2013, 8:39 PM UTC

PavlovsCat wrote: post #307

allochthon wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

but spying at non-US citizens and breaking foreign law in peacetime is deemed acceptable. First let me say that I agree with your sentiment -- it's hypocritical for people in the US to be upset about the US government's spying on its own citizens, but not upset when the people are in other countries. Now for a dose of realism -- every single country out there that has a foreign policy and interests abroad behaves in…

> every single country out there that has a foreign policy and interests abroad behaves in this way to one extent or another. I'm German, and I can't remember ever having heard such a distinction - that some things are okay when done to foreigners, but not when done to Germans - apart from neo-nazis. Sure, who knows what the BND is up to. But "behaving this way" also includes rhetoric that is not just considered acce…

Sorry, I wasn't as clear as I wanted to be -- by "behaving this way," I had in mind the existence of government programs for surveillance and spying; not one-sided complaints on the part of citizens about such programs.

Re: NSA infiltrates links to Yahoo, Google data centers worldwide

#312

Post by allc » Wed, Oct 30, 2013, 8:39 PM UTC

sukuriant wrote: post #160

w_t_payne wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to work in the antivirus industry, and, as I recall, anything that even hinted at a history of hacking or virus-writing would lead to instant dismissal and black-listing (from pretty much the entire computer security industry). I imagine that the same prohibition would now apply to former government employees also. The sad fact of the matter is that we cannot trust individuals that have ever worked with these…

Why would the anti-virus industry refuse to hire people that had developed viruses? Aren't those the people that think like virus writers and could write better antivirus software? Same with the hacking half of that. Those are the people that best know how to secure systems. Wouldn't it be the people that used to be blackhat and have transitioned to gray or white-hat hacking that would be the best people to provide t…

because of their underlying lack of ethics. You need to have ethical hackers that are interested in the wellbeing/security of a community/society. Even if they know the systems from both perspectives, if they even have a moral deficiency, what's to stop them from committing insider attacks/writing exploits of the system? You cannot trust that type of people unless you know for certain that they have abandoned their prior convictions and truly follow white hat hacking, and knowing for certain is hard to do.

Re: NSA infiltrates links to Yahoo, Google data centers worldwide

#313

Post by Oculus » Wed, Oct 30, 2013, 8:41 PM UTC

cromwellian wrote: post #181

orblivion wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's an argument: assuming the worst suspicions, Google and the others are complicit in PRISM, so they deserve our scrutiny here. If this one were dumped at the same time, since Google was blindsided by this, people might forget to scrutinize Google for a while.

There's a difference between assuming the worst, and having evidence on your desk that refutes your own assumptions.

Don't forget the difference between possessing mountains of documents and having the right documents on your desk.

Re: NSA infiltrates links to Yahoo, Google data centers worldwide

#314

Post by whyenot » Wed, Oct 30, 2013, 8:44 PM UTC

As of 1:41pm PST, there is no mention of this news anywhere on the front page of the NY Times website. There have been similar ...time lags... in the past when covering Snowden related news at the NYT. It's a shame one of the most important news sources in the US is so slow in their coverage, either intentionally or not.

Re: NSA infiltrates links to Yahoo, Google data centers worldwide

#315

Post by SideburnsOfDoom » Wed, Oct 30, 2013, 8:44 PM UTC

SeanLuke wrote: post #278

danbruc wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am at a loss for words. Arrogant, self-righteous, disrespectful, ignorant, mendacious...nothing cuts it. It is illegal in the US but who cares about the rest of the world? I can not remember when something similar made me that angry as the current conduct of the US does. If I would not know better that this would negatively affect the whole world and innocent US citizens and that emotional reactions are usually not…

> I am at a loss for words. Arrogant, self-righteous, disrespectful, ignorant, mendacious...nothing cuts it. It is illegal in the US but who cares about the rest of the world? Do you really believe that this is the modus operandi only of the United States? Since, say, France has _at least_ the same position with regard to the rest of the world vs. French citizens, are you angry at France too? Will you cut all french,…

> Do you really believe that this is the modus operandi only of the United States?

Your fallacy is: Tu quoque http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque

Re: NSA infiltrates links to Yahoo, Google data centers worldwide

#316

Post by njharman » Wed, Oct 30, 2013, 8:44 PM UTC

jakewalker wrote: post #4

If that graphic - that taunting smiley face, drawn when it was assumed that no one was watching - isn't enough to outrage the general public, I don't know what it will take. This is not super technical - it's easily explained and should be easily understood by the masses. And it should cause outrage.

I actually assumed and tried to verify really hard that that was the original slide and not "artists concept". I just can't believe someone would present that. Beyond the hubris (which is literally unbelievable ref first sentence for my disbelief), it's just unprofessional and childish.

Re: NSA infiltrates links to Yahoo, Google data centers worldwide

#317

Post by danbruc » Wed, Oct 30, 2013, 8:45 PM UTC

SeanLuke wrote: post #278

danbruc wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am at a loss for words. Arrogant, self-righteous, disrespectful, ignorant, mendacious...nothing cuts it. It is illegal in the US but who cares about the rest of the world? I can not remember when something similar made me that angry as the current conduct of the US does. If I would not know better that this would negatively affect the whole world and innocent US citizens and that emotional reactions are usually not…

> I am at a loss for words. Arrogant, self-righteous, disrespectful, ignorant, mendacious...nothing cuts it. It is illegal in the US but who cares about the rest of the world? Do you really believe that this is the modus operandi only of the United States? Since, say, France has _at least_ the same position with regard to the rest of the world vs. French citizens, are you angry at France too? Will you cut all french,…

First, I clearly presented this as a hypothetical and emotional reaction and I did this purely to illustrate my feelings. Second, I obviously can not be angry about a country but only about people. Currently there are a quite a few people from the US government I see regularly in the media and they make me angry with what they say, but there is nothing special about this people being from the USA.

I have been to France once and while the overall experience was very good there was one bad experience. We had a problem with the motorway toll and stopped to ask a woman working at a toll station. She was obviously able to understand my English question but did not even try to answer in English and I did not understand a single word. This was not bad enough to make me angry but it was very impolite and I have no understanding for this, not even given the history of the relationship between France and Germany. I knew that I had to expect things like this, but it was a single exception and I am happy about this.

So no doubt that there are many people in many countries thinking of their own people as superior, but this is not acceptable in any case.

Re: NSA infiltrates links to Yahoo, Google data centers worldwide

#318

Post by SideburnsOfDoom » Wed, Oct 30, 2013, 8:46 PM UTC

a3n wrote: post #179

swombat wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Typically, if a diplomat constantly breaks the laws of the nation they're sent to in this manner, they get kicked out, and if the sender country in question keeps sending this sort of diplomat, the embassy would eventually be closed.

I cannot imagine Germany closing the US Embassy.

No, you could not. But now we are entertaining that notion.

That is the change that has occurred.

Re: NSA infiltrates links to Yahoo, Google data centers worldwide

#319

Post by smoyer » Wed, Oct 30, 2013, 8:46 PM UTC

nrmilstein wrote: post #283

smoyer wrote: post #276

Would anyone else be interested in inserting a private version of a tracking pixel into each of their e-mails, so that you'd get a list of IP addresses where the mail was viewed back? It would be interesting to see where mail was read versus where it is simply passed in plain text. Crowd-sourcing anonymous data might also allow us to determine which IP addresses belong to the NSA's systems.

I doubt the NSA is foolish enough to make external requests to load images in the emails they read.

And yet they accidentally hired at least one contractor with a conscience!

Re: NSA infiltrates links to Yahoo, Google data centers worldwide

#320

Post by jganetsk » Wed, Oct 30, 2013, 8:48 PM UTC

devx wrote: post #260

allochthon wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would just cut all cables to the US, ... deny US citizens to enter any foreign country and then just do your shit over there and get happy with it. Whoah, there. Your grievances are well-placed. But keep in mind that it's a certain subset of agencies in the US government that are responsible for the problems you're upset about, not all US citizens. As for fixing things, the government has become literally unmanagea…

Unfortunately, not only do a lot of US citizens still support such practices (I think around 40 percent - as long as they mention "to protect you from terrorists"), but most of the rest who don't agree with the practices, can't be bothered to do much about it, like even calling their representative, let alone going out and protesting. I do believe this is very true: > All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for…

People are not going to start hating Americans. They have already been hating Americans for hundreds of years. It started with the "degeneracy thesis" in the 18th century, where it had been suggested by European intellectuals that the American climate led to physically inferior animals and humans. The reasons for hating Americans change everyday.

Hating a group of people is a completely irrational, unconstructive approach to solving a problem. If one has anger about something, they shouldn't lash out at group of people.

If people want Americans to change something on their behalf, for their benefit, it needs to be from a standpoint of respect. They can start by asking nicely.