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Come here and work on hard problems – except the ones on our doorstep

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311–320 of 387 posts

Re: Come here and work on hard problems – except the ones on our doorstep

#311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Poverty on the other hand is a much, much harder problem than that. In fact, no one quite knows how to solve it in a general way (there are things that seem to work in certain contexts but not in others, many special case half-solutions). Everyone keeps saying that, as if there were only two alternatives: 1) completely fix poverty in a general way or 2) keep the status quo (and allow it to get worse). There has to be…

Have a read of what pg has to say about wealth inequality here: http://www.paulgraham.com/inequality.html "So let's be clear what reducing economic inequality means. It is identical with taking money from the rich."

I strongly disagree with his apparent assumption that you can't "push down on the top" without wrecking things up. Sweden and Finland are proof that this isn't true, both have competitive economies that outscore the US in many important metrics for success (among these is general happiness).

You can let people become wealthy, and therefore give people incentive to invest and create, without creating the kind of insane inequality we currently have in the US.

His rant gets ridiculous, though, when he starts talking about doing away with the link between money and power... "We don't need to prevent people from being rich if we can prevent wealth from translating into power." That might be the dumbest thing I've ever seen a smart person say. Money is power. pg probably has someone mow his lawn. I can't do that. Why? Because pg is rich and can pay someone to do it, I am not, therefore I can't.

But that's not Power with a capital "P", you say. But it is. That's what power is, the ability to get others to do what you want them to do. If you have money, in a capitalist society, you have power, by definition. Whether you abuse that power, or use it for things that people consider to be bad (like buying off members of Congress) is a totally different story.

What implications does this have? Well, one of them is that money is, to many, a worthless thing to have if you strip away the power that comes along with it. Severing the connection between money and power would demotivate people the same way taxes do because, ultimately, they are the same thing: you used to have X, now you have X-Z.

Re: Come here and work on hard problems – except the ones on our doorstep

#312

San Francisco homelessness is not a question about rich vs. poor. It's a question about what to do with people who are mentally handicapped and/or drug abusers. This is partially a money problem, but it's largely a social problem. A lot of other countries deal with this better because they have stronger family support structures. Programming can help, but this isn't a programming problem. And there's no money in it,…

You don't need Europe to find out how to clean streets from homeless people. Just ask Arizonians.

Re: Come here and work on hard problems – except the ones on our doorstep

#313
post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is individualism vs collectivism. Socialism is a set of collectivist policies desired or in force while a capitalist society is being consumed (i.e., distribution of goods and services by society's collective dictates). Capitalism "solves the problem" of production by producing what returns profit (in a market of demands and supplies). Once profit is stamped out, production is unguided except by "society" commandi…

Aye, meant collectivism, not sure how I managed that, sorry! Agree that the tyranny of the majority still applies in the case of democracy - see the UK EU in-out referendum impending mess.

Yeah, wasn't so much a rebuke, more of a clarification. Know thine enemy's nature, not just its current appearance :-)

Alas, individualism will never be a mass movement!

Re: Come here and work on hard problems – except the ones on our doorstep

#314

Places with good weather have huge visible homeless populations. (I have traveled all over the United States, and have been to all fifty states. AFTER EDIT: I have been in, and have lived in, gritty "skid row" neighborhoods of large United States cities, and have lived in Los Angeles.) Places with lousy weather, like the place where I grew up and now live, certainly have people who are "homeless" in the sense of not…

There is no Europe. I can only speak for my country, the Netherlands, and there is no such thing as people not having the personal funds to buy or rent housing. That's why we have minimum wages, social security, rent subsidies and regulated rent. The homeless here are people mostly people with mental health issues that reject or don't respond to treatment. It's by far not a perfect utopian system, but to have people…

Not discussing whether it's right or wrong to think this way, but "decent housing" is certainly not remotely considered as a human right. This may be what most people think nowadays, but it's certainly not written anywhere in most constitutions. This is just your interpretation.

Now, not being able to afford housing depends on many factors, it's not just about how much you earn, it's also about the artifical bubbles created on property values by the actors in place...

Re: Come here and work on hard problems – except the ones on our doorstep

#315
post #88
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed - perfectly familiar, have read my share of Tocqueville, Hayek, Hobbes and all the rest, but the fundamental point that divides socialism and liberalism is that of freedom of people, vs. freedom of the people - i.e. individualism vs. socialism. Liberalism has always been about social justice, and the idea that each and every human should be free to run or ruin their own lives (Positive vs. Negative freedom), w…

Classical liberalism (what you call "true" liberalism) focused on negative freedom. Modern liberalism (what you call "socialism" although it's not: modern liberals are still in favor of regulated but mostly free markets) focuses on ensuring positive freedom. Again, no big deal as long as we understand what each person means when they're talking about being a "liberal". In contemporary world, however, calling yourself…

No, I think people that call themselves Classic Liberals believe freedom (liberty) only means "free".

Re: Come here and work on hard problems – except the ones on our doorstep

#316

Places with good weather have huge visible homeless populations. (I have traveled all over the United States, and have been to all fifty states. AFTER EDIT: I have been in, and have lived in, gritty "skid row" neighborhoods of large United States cities, and have lived in Los Angeles.) Places with lousy weather, like the place where I grew up and now live, certainly have people who are "homeless" in the sense of not…

There is no Europe. I can only speak for my country, the Netherlands, and there is no such thing as people not having the personal funds to buy or rent housing. That's why we have minimum wages, social security, rent subsidies and regulated rent. The homeless here are people mostly people with mental health issues that reject or don't respond to treatment. It's by far not a perfect utopian system, but to have people…

[deleted]

Re: Come here and work on hard problems – except the ones on our doorstep

#317
I'm originally Swedish and moved from France to Silicon Valley in 2001; I found it so depressing to see all the homeless people in SF that I ended up getting a place in Palo Alto rather than SF. As I gradually became desensitized I made my way further and further up north, until I finally ended up in SF 5 years later.

I am very happy in San Francisco and have no plans on moving back for a lot of different reasons: lots of smart people working on interesting projects, great weather, beautiful city, and so forth. Having said that, one of the few things that I don't love about living here is a more civilized i.e. socialistic system.

The current situation, where we live in one of the greatest richest cities in the US, with terrible infrastructure (compared to most European and Asian metropolitan areas) and homeless everywhere is completely appalling and depressing, and I do think most people would be happier if we had great streets, parks, transportation and a clean city even if that meant a little bit less cash in their pockets - even if they don't realize it. I think most people that don't value these things have probably not spent a lot of time in cities that have them.

Re: Come here and work on hard problems – except the ones on our doorstep

#318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no Europe. I can only speak for my country, the Netherlands, and there is no such thing as people not having the personal funds to buy or rent housing. That's why we have minimum wages, social security, rent subsidies and regulated rent. The homeless here are people mostly people with mental health issues that reject or don't respond to treatment. It's by far not a perfect utopian system, but to have people…

Not discussing whether it's right or wrong to think this way, but "decent housing" is certainly not remotely considered as a human right. This may be what most people think nowadays, but it's certainly not written anywhere in most constitutions. This is just your interpretation. Now, not being able to afford housing depends on many factors, it's not just about how much you earn, it's also about the artifical bubbles…

So some documents do treat housing as a human right: (UN declaration of human rights) Article 25. (1) Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control. - https://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/

Re: Come here and work on hard problems – except the ones on our doorstep

#319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not discussing whether it's right or wrong to think this way, but "decent housing" is certainly not remotely considered as a human right. This may be what most people think nowadays, but it's certainly not written anywhere in most constitutions. This is just your interpretation. Now, not being able to afford housing depends on many factors, it's not just about how much you earn, it's also about the artifical bubbles…

So some documents do treat housing as a human right: (UN declaration of human rights) Article 25. (1) Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of liveli…

UN declaration is just a statement of "wishes". Almost no country reflects it in their actual regulations or constitutions. And let's not forget that many dictatorships signed that declaration and respect none of its principles, so this is, unfortunately, worthless.

Re: Come here and work on hard problems – except the ones on our doorstep

#320
post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're projecting your desires for a bit of freedom from the rat-race onto the homeless.

Perhaps a bit, but these comments are also based on real conversations with homeless people in SF.

They're trying to preserve their dignity.

If someone offered them a rat race job and they had the appropriate education, cultural norms, social skills, and were mentally healthy, they would take it.

People don't choose to be homeless. It may be the best option available to them, but that doens't mean they chose it, it means they have very very few options. Their opportunity is limited by the rich people pushing austerity and gutting basic humanitarian services.

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