Live data from Hacker News

I like 'em thick: an apology to my English teachers

experimental-history.com

311–320 of 360 posts

Re: I like 'em thick: an apology to my English teachers

#311
I only disagree with looking down on people who dislike poems that don't rhyme. Rhyming is another way to demonstrate effort, a thing that the author claims is thick. Not to say I dislike all non-rhyming poems, but it is just less impressive to capture an idea or feeling without rhyming, than it is with.

One of the signs of a declining band is the discarding of rhyming. This is usually accompanied by uninspired lyrics. The result is often something only for the die-hards to enjoy.

Re: I like 'em thick: an apology to my English teachers

#312

I only disagree with looking down on people who dislike poems that don't rhyme. Rhyming is another way to demonstrate effort, a thing that the author claims is thick. Not to say I dislike all non-rhyming poems, but it is just less impressive to capture an idea or feeling without rhyming, than it is with. One of the signs of a declining band is the discarding of rhyming. This is usually accompanied by uninspired lyric…

To be fair I didn't understand the author's statements as looking down on people who dislike poems that don't rhyme. Regardless, I think, and hopefully we could both agree, that we shouldn't look down on people for any reason. Humans have inherit value and worth that does not depend on laws, leaders or their views on any topic.

I will say, I am always impressed, if some time has gone by and I pick up some Chaucer, Keats, Byron, Shakespeare again. Interestingly, now that I am reflecting on it, one of the most impressive and dense, at least to me, is Milton, who writes in blank verse in Paradise Lost, which itself provides a counterpoint to the notion that non-rhyming poems are less impressive.

I think I still agree with you though that ceteris paribus, Paradise Lost with rhyme would be even more impressive, though I do wonder if it would have the same impact.

Re: I like 'em thick: an apology to my English teachers

#314

> Why this word, this scene, this character, and not some other one? The "why this not that , even when it looks like that would do just fine" style of differential analysis is an exquisitely powerful analytical tool. Asking this question is probably the single most powerful method I know of to generate deep thought, in absolutely any aspect of life. If you haven't tried it... go for it! (Sample question: why'd I cho…

I like my five stars, but I always preface any rating with a description of how I define my ratings: 5: This book changed the way I think. 4: I enjoyed reading this book. It was interesting and engaging. 3: This book is OK. I wouldn't read it again. 2: This book had parts where I wanted to drop it. 1: I couldn't finish the book. It's actively bad.

As always with scales like this, any definition is subjective and scales shouldn't be used without understanding their impact. I'd never apply this scale to an Uber driver. Also, scales shouldn't be used for stack ranking. At least not without defining the heuristics first.

To me, scales are a way to focus my qualitative impressions into something that's not an essay. It's a good starting point for a discussion about the merits of the work. It definitely has its footguns, though.

Re: I like 'em thick: an apology to my English teachers

#315

The anecdote about the garden of earthly delights is going to be relatable even for art students. I've met art teachers that ended up "trapped" in Madrid by the Prado Museum: A green, American future Ph.D student that was heading to Greece to specialize in old greek art. But instead of flying straight there, they stopped at Madrid to see the Prado, and were never able to leave. Changed their direction immediately, an…

> The very best paintings in the world, in person, can stop people cold.

I will always remember literally stopping mid stride to just stare at a Francis Bacon I'd seen in the corner of my eye in the Tate modern. Slightly later same day I am just staring at Monet lillies bewildered.

I gotta be honest, any time I go back I am disappointed because the same surprise and wonder have simple not been present. Idk

Re: I like 'em thick: an apology to my English teachers

#316
post #37

As an old man I now think the art and humanities classes in school landed at the wrong time. You need context to really understand a book or a work of art. You want to know what kind of environment produced it, what it's talking to. But when you're in school, there isn't time for that. You aren't going to know a bunch of things about history to put things into context, because there simply isn't enough time for it. S…

> But when you're in school, there isn't time for that. You aren't going to know a bunch of things about history to put things into context, because there simply isn't enough time for it. I think you just had bad teachers. Historical context was always part of the English language/literature curricula at my high school, and it definitely made a difference. I didn’t even go to a good school. Our district was the worst…

I really liked my teachers, and have always thought of them as good teachers, however it's also very clear to me as an adult that they didn't teach literature or art. We where taught to read and write, but not have an appreciation of the language, nor to see text as anything but text. I did have teachers that briefly touched on the subject of interpreting a text, I still view that subject as mostly bullshit as you can basically read anything you want into a text, e.g. a lot of works can be read as a struggle between the working class and the bourgeoisie, without it being remotely the intention.

Also not all books are great works of art, created to teach you about the world, humanity or life in general, most are just entertainment. The problem, in my mind, is that teachers feel like they need to pick out classics, and "great works of art" most of which aren't written for children or even teenagers. A great number of people have had their potential joy of reading and art stomped out of them, by not introducing them to works relevant for their age and life situation. Doing so might however mean picking 20 or more different books for a single class.

In my case Danish and history was two different subjects and rarely did they cross paths. Just as an example of how terrible history lessons can be, the general summary of my schools teaching of WW2: A time of rationing, blackout curtains and bunkers. Oh and the Germans where there, they appeared to enjoy their stay.

Re: I like 'em thick: an apology to my English teachers

#318

This piece is great. And it’s totally true that we’re surrounded by walls of slop. I stop reading things all the time when I notice the tinge of AI. That said, I don’t think that just because this is the way things are, this is this is the way things have to be. Even with our interactions with AI. And I have hope. Ted Chiang had a great piece in the New Yorker years ago called “Why AI isn’t going to make Art”[1] wher…

If it were just a problem of making too average choices, it could be fixed by sampling at a higher temperature. But I think there's a bigger problem in that the correct choices depend on the context in a complicated way, and LLMs can't handle arbitrary deep dependency chains, so by default you get the average choice based on superficial cues instead of the average choice based on careful planning. Which is why for coding, chain-of-thought and tool calls are necessary to make the implicit explicit.

Making artistic choices explicit and subjecting them to a planning process with iterative refinement would probably already improve quality a lot (consider image generation models using a prompt rewriting to create more varied and detailed outputs) but to get the most out of it, you'd likely need a model specifically trained for that process. And considering that coding is much more lucrative, it might take a while before we get there.

Re: I like 'em thick: an apology to my English teachers

#319
post #257
post #204

I really like this, in the world burning, slaughter of the young all around and the economy unbalanced and tettering on the brink... Art. I have a quibble, that does not detract: This is about consuming art, and the appreciation of great art. Part of the pleasure of art, is making art. In a community we appreciate each other's art in an altogether different way. We cheer on our comrades and they cheer on us, and we m…

>Part of the pleasure of art, is making art. Yes! I'll have to write a response to this article... an ode to crap art! A while back I started consciously making low effort art. It was part of a exercise where I was intentionally desensitizing myself to shame, embarrassment and fear of judgment, because I noticed them severely holding me back in life. So I thought, I am going to make something crap, that people will j…

> ... gay werewolves

Care to share??? :)

Re: I like 'em thick: an apology to my English teachers

#320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the book tells you? To my shame I've never read Dickens, but I did read the Romanian canonical authors (I am Romanian), and a lot of them, the ones I liked, gave you a very real sense of the life of the people at the time. Ion, for example, is basically a tragedy about the titular character scheming to marry a woman whom he doesn't love (but who loves him) because he's poor and she's "rich" (owns land). And t…

> "To my shame I've never read Dickens" I suggest dropping the shame; you're not missing much. IMHO Dickens is hugely overrated. Paid by the word and it shows.

I have to reply and say that this ain't so, for anyone reading this and thinking of picking Dickens up: it's worth it.
Post reply on HN