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In Australia, a home battery boom has helped cut wholesale power prices

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Re: In Australia, a home battery boom has helped cut wholesale power prices

#311

Post by red75prime »

thelastgallon wrote: post #244
epistasis wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Solar overcapacity is really cheap, because panels are really cheap. Dedicated seasonal energy storage technology doesn't even exist right now, much less economically efficient storage technology. The closest thing would be a massive thermal store used for district heating, but only prototypes are starting right now. Industrial scaling and mass deployment? That's a decade+ away at a minimum. We could build seasonal o…

Indeed. Solar overcapacity can be used to produce green hydrogen for industrial uses (high heat), green ammonia (fertilizer), etc. Ammonia has supply chains and is known quantity to ship and store. Could be used in fuel cells. Of course, the efficiency is low, but thats a necessary cost for seasonal storage. Australia has so much land. And sunny everywhere. I'm sure Europe will buy green ammonia or fertilizer to meet…

Unfortunately, we aren't there yet. Whyalla Steelworks was intended to produce "green steel" using hydrogen. The project began around 2022 and was cancelled in 2025 (timelines weren't met, financial troubles). Port Bonython Hydrogen hub studies its commitment to responsible development. I guess it means that not much is going on there right now.

Re: In Australia, a home battery boom has helped cut wholesale power prices

#313

Post by j45 »

stubish wrote: post #266
laurencerowe wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In California consumer electricity is high because of distribution costs stemming form wildfire risks from distribution in rural areas and sprawl into the wildland-urban interface where many people live as urban areas have historically blocked development. Wholesale generation costs are some of the lowest in the country. These costs of distortion vary very little based on how much you as an individual consume but the…

Interestingly, with the new free power periods in Australia, it is now better economically to not install solar panels and instead spend the cost saving on a larger battery. Solar has become so popular in my region that periods where the grid pays more than 0 for power when the sun is shining are a statistical anomaly. My solar panels will now never pay for themselves, pissing away their power to the grid for free, b…

Local generation + storage seems the starting combination.

Re: In Australia, a home battery boom has helped cut wholesale power prices

#314

Post by sarchertech »

lazide wrote: post #287
sarchertech wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure that’s one of the argument for why they do it but the money doesn’t directly to most small businesses, we do have small downturns, and they don’t result in the majority of small businesses going out of business.

have you seen the turnover stats on small businesses? most ‘die’ in a few years anyway. look up the history of why the fed exists and you’ll see why we have ‘small’ downturns.

I’m well aware of the history of the fed.

Most small businesses fail because they were never serious businesses to begin with. A business closing down after running for a year with no profit isn’t relevant.

Re: In Australia, a home battery boom has helped cut wholesale power prices

#315

Post by AneBytree »

Australians, who were falsely promised by Labor at the 2022 election that their household power bills would be $275 cheaper, want reliable and affordable power generation.

If the Albanese government continues down a renewables-only path that excludes gas and zero-emissions nuclear, expect more Tomago smelter Billionm$$$ bailouts in the near future and fewer data centres

Re: In Australia, a home battery boom has helped cut wholesale power prices

#316

Post by sidewndr46 »

tialaramex wrote: post #170
sidewndr46 wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, if you live somewhere you own the power you generate. I don't own the power I generate if I had solar.

I don't understand. If you owned a solar calculator you'd have to pay somebody because you made power ? Huh ? We've discussed before on HN the fact that the "Lets own everything" capitalists apparently didn't realise they needed to own the Sun and Wind (modulo Simpsons cartoon) but I guess maybe yours do? How much do you pay for a sunny day, on average, and if you won't pay do you get clouds or what ?

if I generate solar power on my property I must sell it to the city.

Re: In Australia, a home battery boom has helped cut wholesale power prices

#317

Post by AnotherGoodName »

duxup wrote: post #295
AnotherGoodName wrote: post #17

It started with a solar boom, many small home scale solar roofs popping up everywhere. Australia has a free trade agreement with much of the world, including China, and solar panels have literally dropped to 1/50th of the price they were in 1990 ($10/W to $0.2/W today). A shout out to the work that was done to establish dynamic grid pricing too. Anyway that caused power prices to reliably go negative during the day a…

If they pay you 3k to install a battery, what’s the cost of the battery overall?

AUD$6k (just under USD$4k) after rebate installed with inverter for the 10kwh Fox-ESS listed here https://www.solarchoice.net.au/solar-batteries/is-home-batte...

Fwiw the reason the ~$6k price point is common in that list is because the rebate is 30% up to $3k including install+inverter. So that's the price point everyone's trying to aim for. You could get smaller systems but may as well maximize that rebate.

Australia's average daily household usage is 15kwh. So 10kwh works well in a country that doesn't need significant night time heating, just daytime (when powers cheap) air conditioning.

Re: In Australia, a home battery boom has helped cut wholesale power prices

#318

Post by timbit42 »

ksec wrote: post #203

It may be easy to install battery for house, but I wonder about apartments?

Landlords have little incentive to install solar if the tenant is paying the power bill. Perhaps legislate that the landlord has to include power in the rent so they have an incentive to install solar.

Re: In Australia, a home battery boom has helped cut wholesale power prices

#320

Post by modo_mario »

henry2023 wrote: post #143
modo_mario wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the end you have to replace those panels and nobody in your country now produces them or has the incentive to start producing them unless they not only drop the subsidies but sell well over market value.

what if you develop manufacturing capabilities during the 30 years lifespan of the panels?

We're well into that 30 years. You'd have to start doing so sincerely and i don't see nor expect it.
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