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U.S. economy lost 23,000 jobs in July, a sudden reversal

nbcnews.com

311–320 of 377 posts

Re: U.S. economy lost 23,000 jobs in July, a sudden reversal

#311

I would hardly call it a sudden reversal, looking at the downward trend in the numbers over the last six months or so. https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/non-farm-payrolls

What happened between February and March?

Apparently there were healthcare strikes in February that depressed the numbers there, which were resolved by March. Also maybe data center and World Cup hospitality hiring. But hard to say. As others have noted, there are big error bands on these numbers.

Re: U.S. economy lost 23,000 jobs in July, a sudden reversal

#312

As a data scientist it is very frustrating to see a consistent lack of error bars on these numbers or any discussion about the magnitude of uncertainty around them by all news reports every time these numbers get released

The actual source this comes from has a 90% confidence interval in the published number. When people talk about the economy gaining or losing jobs they are talking about the bureau of labor statistics "nonfarm payroll" number. The methodology and a lot more are on the bls website

https://www.bls.gov/ces/

Re: U.S. economy lost 23,000 jobs in July, a sudden reversal

#313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say the initial numbers should be embargoed until the number is reliable. People don’t understand error bars and reporting can more easily manipulate the current situation without outright lying.

No, just report them with error bars. We know the 95th percentile revision size of the distribution. Moot point as the people who actually act on the data understand how to roll their own anyway.

Error bars would be misleading, because this isn't a sampling error. These start with actual counts. The more important errors are systematic: the definitions of terms, the reporting mechanisms, etc.

Except that those things are constant from month to month, so deltas largely cancel them out.

The problem isn't in the size of the possible errors, but in understanding what those numbers mean and how they are gathered. That requires far more background reading.

Re: U.S. economy lost 23,000 jobs in July, a sudden reversal

#314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are already better systems of healthcare. The US one is only good if you're wealthy

It’s actually better to be average Western European than white and top 1-5% American: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullar...

It turns out that when you make a massive profit motive to sell expensive fancy interventions, health outcomes suffer.

You see this to an even more extreme degree amongst the ultra rich and powerful, who are often using cutting edge, experimental treatments, and often reaping the downsides of being on that edge (though of course also the upsides).

Re: U.S. economy lost 23,000 jobs in July, a sudden reversal

#315
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baumol_effect Any sector that's resistant to productivity growth is liable to become bigger and bigger part of the economy.

yeah but the size of the us healthcare sector (like 18%) is a policy choice, other developed countries have theirs at 10-12%. U.S. healthcare is a giant predatory clusterfuck and seems impossible to meaningfully reform.

You can’t reform it because of the immense job loss that would result from an efficiently run public healthcare system. Think about all the useless paper pushers that are allowed to vote

Re: U.S. economy lost 23,000 jobs in July, a sudden reversal

#316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So perhaps we'll never get to a better healthcare+insurance market (nee "Free") through government, but eventually we will just all work in healthcare, and barter our nursing and dental skills in secret away from the insurance coders.

There will never be a better healthcare because the true cost of fixing a body more often than not far exceeds the value that body produces. People run to dismiss this with "well we need a different system then", but the problem is a fundamental one on par with "eating your cake and having it too". The only way to get as close as possible to "good" healthcare is to have enough money to pay for everything out of pocke…

"The only way to get as close as possible to "good" healthcare is to have enough money to pay for everything out of pocket."

This isn't possible. Healthcare is a finite resource and having universal, government care not only puts your life into the hands of the government (see the UK for an example where parents are not allowed to take their children out of the hospital) but offers worse outcomes.

When you are young and healthy, it's great. As you age, life-or-death surgeries have long wait times. This can be seen in any country with universal care. My aging relatives in Canada are going through this right now and have been forced to come to the US to get surgery in months rather than waiting years.

MAID has been great for healthcare costs in Canada. Many people that would otherwise have been costing the system money, are now a benefit. The sad realization is that government-run programs need MAID to cut down on costs.

I know lots of expats living in Asia that are now getting older. They have to go elsewhere to get any surgeries done, because of this exact reason.

To make it better, we should only have insurance for surgeries that can't benefit from the free market and are relatively rare. Common surgeries and procedures should have no insurance. The prices would eventually fall to levels that were affordable.

The masses don't want plans like this. They like easy solutions that sound good when you say them and don't take a whole lot of thought besides an elementary school level of thinking.

Re: U.S. economy lost 23,000 jobs in July, a sudden reversal

#317

Meanwhile Canada is up 75,000 jobs in July. Can't wait to see the next tantrum America throws our way. https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/canada-jobs-july-2026-9.729...

One of the saddest parts of the current era is the wedge that has been driven in the US/Canada relationship. Canada is in the process of removing as many dependencies on the US as possible, because the US has destroyed trust in it, resulting in the need to turn to countries like China to be bigger trading partners. I'd say there's a possibility (as in > 30% chance) that Canada and European nations enter a post-NATO d…

It's incredibly sad. It's such a lose-lose situation we're all in. We have enormous natural resources to share with an enormous industrial partner, we share an enormous land border, and are two of the culturally closest nations on the planet. China being the more palatable power to partner with is a horrifyingly bad sign that there's something deeply broken and in need of repair in the U.S.

Re: U.S. economy lost 23,000 jobs in July, a sudden reversal

#318

Interesting, this article doesn't seem to mention the layoffs from the tech industry. Which, if you look at the numbers, sort of make up the bulk of it.

No, this is wrong. If you read the report, the bulk of the job contraction was in industries entirely divorced from the tech sector. I don’t understand why you would make this comment without even reading the article, let alone the report itself.

Re: U.S. economy lost 23,000 jobs in July, a sudden reversal

#319
post #170

> The BLS said employment contracted the most in “local government education,” which declined by 50,000 roles, likely reflecting teachers during summer break. This is not entirely accurate. AFAIK, teachers usually remain on payroll throughout the summer. This stat _might_ be talking about contractual teaching roles, like adjuncts or subs, but it's hard to say from that BLS category.

I don't think it's attributable to summer break. Didn't ~1,100K teachers quit in Fort Worth, TX due (in part) to a rise in political interference?

> ..rise in political interference?

I haven't heard it phrased like that before hah. The truth is when a school district is bad enough the state comes in and takes it over to try and get things back on their feet. Fort Worth is just embarrassed because FWISD is so bad the state had to take it over.

My wife is a HS teacher in Richardson and one of her friends was hired as a new principal at one of the FWISD schools. She said the situation is pretty bleak and most teachers should be fired but they likely won't be able to get rid of all the bad ones. That's pretty typical unfortunately in public education.

https://www.fwisd.org/about/tea

/the same thing happened to a school district in Houston

Re: U.S. economy lost 23,000 jobs in July, a sudden reversal

#320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are already better systems of healthcare. The US one is only good if you're wealthy

It’s actually better to be average Western European than white and top 1-5% American: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullar...

To be fair, the structure of that study is pretty bizarre. Why only look at 6 specific illnesses rather than something like life expectancy?
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