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Prevent cognitive debt by manually retyping LLM-generated code

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Re: Prevent cognitive debt by manually retyping LLM-generated code

#311

Post by fbrncci »

TheJuli wrote: post #310
1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote: post #308

Not familiar with this term "cognitive debt" A debt implies repayment. But the loss here is not going to be repaid, it's permanent Perhaps a more appropriate term might be "cognitive deficit" or "cognitive loss"

Repayment here means that you eventually need to invest the time to understand the approach used and the code intricacy, to later fix or build upon IF you are to manually/artisanally (for a lack of a better word) go about addressing the issue. ...if you use AI again, then yeah it's a permanent loss.

At this stage with AI and how massive AI generated codebases are growing, the chance of fixing anything manually has already reached 0.

Re: Prevent cognitive debt by manually retyping LLM-generated code

#312

Post by fluoridation »

gw32 wrote: post #305
dns_snek wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course you learn more if you retype material than if you do nothing, but it's still a waste of time, comparatively speaking, because there are much better ways of engaging with the material like solving practice problems. Having to spend 95% of the time taking notes of things that could be distributed in a PDF has only ever hindered me academically. It's mechanical and boring, my mind tunes out and I get nothing o…

Am I the only one who enjoys taking notes? But more in the sense of recording knowledge so that I have it in perpetuity. For instance, I have almost completely forgotten how to solve ODEs, even though I had a good command of it when I learned it (by solving practice problems). In that sense, I wish that my prior self had taken good notes, so that I wouldn't have to dig up source material if I wanted to relearn it aga…

>In that sense, I wish that my prior self had taken good notes, so that I wouldn't have to dig up source material if I wanted to relearn it again.

I don't really get it. If you've truly forgotten, you have to relearn it one way or another. What makes you think your past student self improvising a half-assed explanation in the moment could do better than a professional author who was already an expert when they wrote the book?

Re: Prevent cognitive debt by manually retyping LLM-generated code

#313

Post by Syzygies »

"In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they're not."

I tried this, long ago. I just wasn't getting Haskell, so I'd retype my programs from memory and reconstruction. Obvious for music, why not for code?

All these untested opinions? You'd think we were discussing BMWs.

Re: Prevent cognitive debt by manually retyping LLM-generated code

#314

Post by gtsop »

WhyComboNadir wrote: post #170

Lots of reactions here, but if it works for you then that's great. For me I feel that LLMs have exploded (in a good way) my cognitive capabilities. I'm now the general of an army, rather than playing the role of a soldier. Of course that means that I lose the experience of being the lonely soldier, but it is a no-brainer tradeoff for me. Anyway, I have to go now so I can push my car to the grocery store (so I don't f…

Show us what you've built, general.

Re: Prevent cognitive debt by manually retyping LLM-generated code

#316

Post by henry_bone »

RealityVoid wrote: post #115
estebarb wrote: post #112

This will cause cognitive debt anyway. As mentioned in https://arxiv.org/pdf/2509.21972v1 : "When students rely on these outputs as a substitute for their own reasoning or critical engagement, the learning process is fundamentally compromised. Genuine learning requires the active construction of meaning, integration of knowledge, and reflective engagement with content. These processes cannot occur through passive con…

What do you think would be the effect on people that already have the skills and abilities. The LLM would build these systems using the skills that are largely understood by the programmer but piece them in new ways suitable for the system. This could lead to new enmergent behaviors that are not understood by the programmer. I still think that you can build this model in your head even with LLM's but I'm not sure nei…

It's simple enough: If you don't use it, you lose it.

The more you have, the more there is to lose and the longer it may take. But skills and knowledge fade, just as easily as fitness, or a tan.

It's an insidious rule too. Insidious in the sense that you may not realise you're not exercising a skill. You may think that your just doing it slightly differently, but you will adapt. In whatever way you made your life easier, that's where you'll pay, in strength, fluency, depth, whatever.

Re: Prevent cognitive debt by manually retyping LLM-generated code

#317

Post by epolanski »

I do something different, I type everything by hand and have AI provide feedback.

It's one of the best ways to kickstart projects that have intrinsic software complexity as you get your hands wet into the design tensions and constraints early.

And you get to practice some.

Re: Prevent cognitive debt by manually retyping LLM-generated code

#318

Post by epolanski »

henry_bone wrote: post #316
RealityVoid wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you think would be the effect on people that already have the skills and abilities. The LLM would build these systems using the skills that are largely understood by the programmer but piece them in new ways suitable for the system. This could lead to new enmergent behaviors that are not understood by the programmer. I still think that you can build this model in your head even with LLM's but I'm not sure nei…

It's simple enough: If you don't use it, you lose it. The more you have, the more there is to lose and the longer it may take. But skills and knowledge fade, just as easily as fitness, or a tan. It's an insidious rule too. Insidious in the sense that you may not realise you're not exercising a skill. You may think that your just doing it slightly differently, but you will adapt. In whatever way you made your life eas…

I don't know how much I agree, I've been in and out coding for different periods of my life.

At each point few days of practice brought me back where I was.

Re: Prevent cognitive debt by manually retyping LLM-generated code

#319

Post by epolanski »

f311a wrote: post #31

This does not sound fun. It's better to work on your side projects with manual coding. You will learn more. Retyping things is inefficient for learning. It's like trying to retype calculus solutions — you don't learn from it. Even if there is an explanation of why the code is written in such a way, you did not come up with it, and you don't know alternative solutions. It is a practice for memorizing, not for building…

Working on the problems yourself and have AI in a reviewer/feedback mode is the most productive way to challenge complex software problems.

Re: Prevent cognitive debt by manually retyping LLM-generated code

#320

Post by eventualcomp »

epolanski wrote: post #318
henry_bone wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's simple enough: If you don't use it, you lose it. The more you have, the more there is to lose and the longer it may take. But skills and knowledge fade, just as easily as fitness, or a tan. It's an insidious rule too. Insidious in the sense that you may not realise you're not exercising a skill. You may think that your just doing it slightly differently, but you will adapt. In whatever way you made your life eas…

I don't know how much I agree, I've been in and out coding for different periods of my life. At each point few days of practice brought me back where I was.

A few days multiplied by the number of skills I once had translates to well over two months of lost time.
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