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The LLM Critics Are Right. I Use LLMs Anyway

theocharis.dev

311–320 of 330 posts

Re: The LLM Critics Are Right. I Use LLMs Anyway

#311
post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One up. To Aristotle and Plato. Where Plato was against writing because people will become forgetful if they don’t train their minds remembering things.

It was Socrates that was skeptical about writing. We only know this because his student Plato wrote it down.

Exactly, looks like I should have written that down for myself instead of relying on LLM or even better, train my memory instead of depending on crutches ;)

Re: The LLM Critics Are Right. I Use LLMs Anyway

#312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dont know what to tell you. I guess - correct your misconceptions? Carbon footprint of commute is in KGs of CO2. A day's worth of AI, depending on model, is ~15-100g of CO2. Heck food you eat has more than a few Kgs of footprint everyday.

Does that include the training?

yes. training is a magnitude lower of energy of the lifecycle of frontier models. with current use of opus etc, the math is closer to 1%.

https://libguides.usc.edu/blogs/USC-AI-Beat/hidden-costs-of-...

Re: The LLM Critics Are Right. I Use LLMs Anyway

#313

>> I am a little bit scared to say this too: last month I spent almost 10k USD on tokens. It sounds so insane. No it just sounds completely stupid. You spent $10k to get a program to write text that you can write yourself just as well and for free. "Dissonance" doesn't even begin to describe it. It's like suddenly everyone has turned into the listless blobs of fat that humans have turned into in Wall-E. I just hope a…

> You spent $10k to get a program to write text that you can write yourself just as well and for free. "You spent $1k on a flight ticket from SFO to NYC when you could have just walked yourself just as well and for free"

0.25 day flight vs 120+ day walk doesn't really seem like a fair comparison, nobody is hundreds of times more productive from this.

Re: The LLM Critics Are Right. I Use LLMs Anyway

#314
post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is just a repackaged argument against SaaS and cloud infrastructure. Every business could be using subscription free spreadsheet software and storing all of their data on prem and employing an IT team to manage the servers and data but the majority choose to pay a third party to handle all of that. Hell, they could even go so far as to do it all manually with written records and filing cabinets. All of those wor…

> This is just a repackaged argument against SaaS and cloud infrastructure. Which, ironically enough, is still a terrible idea for a lot of businesses. But it's trendy, so they go with it.

The crazy thing is how cheap it is to spin up a cloud server, but how little actual processing power you're getting for your money. Even if the business manages to keep their cloud spend in check it's probably going to be at the expense of a terrible user experience because everything in the web app will feel slow and all that matters is individual P95 request latency is within some arbitrary number of seconds.

Re: The LLM Critics Are Right. I Use LLMs Anyway

#315
post #278
post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I might be missing something but what exactly is being projected here? The US did what the author said. It's not farfetched to imagine geopolitical conflicts could, at some point, drive china to do something similar. > all the frontier models from China are free to download Maybe? Again, not hard to imagine that they might not be releasing their actual frontier models to the public.

I guess China did not deserve mention. They are the only one releasing open models consitently and not cutting any access. Only US actions show evidence and for the US only.

Fair enough, that makes sense

Re: The LLM Critics Are Right. I Use LLMs Anyway

#316
post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You spent $10k to get a program to write text that you can write yourself just as well and for free. "You spent $1k on a flight ticket from SFO to NYC when you could have just walked yourself just as well and for free"

0.25 day flight vs 120+ day walk doesn't really seem like a fair comparison, nobody is hundreds of times more productive from this.

5 minutes assigning the task to an agent and doing something more productive vs. 2 days of tedious typing you've done a billion times already.

Re: The LLM Critics Are Right. I Use LLMs Anyway

#317
post #90
post #2

> LLM’s amplify what you already have: opinions, structure, frameworks. So far, so agreeable, but… > If you have thoughts, they come out sharper and faster. I can’t help but wonder whether constant use of “agent” harnesses will lead to an atrophy of the software engineering (or really any field) muscles. Actual muscles need exercise to stay in shape (let alone grow), so does the brain. Can we really be sure that thou…

> I can’t help but wonder whether constant use of “agent” harnesses will lead to an atrophy of the software engineering (or really any field) muscles. Compiler evolutions really harmed how well software engineers understand or how often they have to drop down to assembly language. Is that a problem for the 99% of developers around? Probably not. I view LLMs as the next evolution. Some people will still need to care a…

LLMs are not deterministic and I still look at compiler result and I encourage people to look at it. That people don't look at the result of compiler is a problem and not a an argument

Re: The LLM Critics Are Right. I Use LLMs Anyway

#318
post #2

> LLM’s amplify what you already have: opinions, structure, frameworks. So far, so agreeable, but… > If you have thoughts, they come out sharper and faster. I can’t help but wonder whether constant use of “agent” harnesses will lead to an atrophy of the software engineering (or really any field) muscles. Actual muscles need exercise to stay in shape (let alone grow), so does the brain. Can we really be sure that thou…

I'm frankly baffled by the number of commenters saying they've seen little productivity gains using LLMs/agents. My team got cut in half at the end of last year and we've probably increased our output by 25% primarily due to LLMs. Personally it's probably doubled my productivity. And we generally use a pretty structured spec based approach with consistent human code review, and six months into adoption we've had virt…

What is your metric ? How do you calculate ROI ? Strange that you didn't specify that. Also, are you sure your "25% increase" is due to LLMs ? Every time I see this claim, it is always for a short time period or the increase was not due to LLMs at all

Re: The LLM Critics Are Right. I Use LLMs Anyway

#319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Conversely, I also am a user of LLMs (true shocker these days, I know), and am noticing a speedup in areas I was already familiar with, and a quicker introduction to new ones. The obvious benefit cannot be denied, and doing so regardless makes you look uninformed. [Excluding people who don’t want anything to do with LLMs out of moral principle, which curiously just like the overarching topic I also both respect and…

> What about me ... While I can see that you feel very passionately about this, the reality is that it's the majority experience that will dictate adoption. There may never be published research on productivity -- blinding in this instance is impossible, so I don't know how you'd ever do fully-controlled behavioural studies that carried any weight. It doesn't matter. If enough of us decide that LLMs are useful to us,…

Jesus ! You guys are very authoritharian. Even if it is now the norm, I prefer to not use that tool and I bet the more the time past and the more I will be faster than anyone that use LLMs (because of skills atrophy)

Re: The LLM Critics Are Right. I Use LLMs Anyway

#320

>> I am a little bit scared to say this too: last month I spent almost 10k USD on tokens. It sounds so insane. No it just sounds completely stupid. You spent $10k to get a program to write text that you can write yourself just as well and for free. "Dissonance" doesn't even begin to describe it. It's like suddenly everyone has turned into the listless blobs of fat that humans have turned into in Wall-E. I just hope a…

> You spent $10k to get a program to write text that you can write yourself just as well and for free. "You spent $1k on a flight ticket from SFO to NYC when you could have just walked yourself just as well and for free"

As if programming by hand was sooooooo inconvenient
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