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Political bias in AI: Where the AI models stand

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Re: Political bias in AI: Where the AI models stand

#311

Post by almostdeadguy »

patrickmay wrote: post #198
bee_rider wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The space (if it really is useful to think of as a space) of political opinions seems like it is probably many, many dimensional. The 1D thing is an obvious over-simplification, but the 2D compass seems to be a not-obvious-simplification which is… much worse.

I find the Nolan Chart ( https://www.theadvocates.org/political-type-comparison/ ) to be a better version of the 2D compass. You're absolutely right that more dimensions would be better, but finding the right orthogonal ones is difficult. The Nolan Chart is superior to the simplistic left vs right of U.S. political discourse in part because it shows there is more variation than the major parties would like everyone t…

"Freedom" is and always has been incoherent. Rights and protections require enforcement by society. Every right creates a countervailing obligation and social function. Property rights require a state apparatus to enforce them (or they aren't really "rights" at all). Free speech, collective bargaining, privacy, free exercise of religion, etc. require state intervention for preservation of those rights.

Libertarians tell a story about their ideology that assumes power and coercion can only be performed by the government (often in a slippery way, conceding a government that has lots of ability to secure property rights) and that power exerted by the wealthy or by organized communities of interest without a manifest government cannot be coercive or unfree in some sense. It just makes no sense.

Re: Political bias in AI: Where the AI models stand

#312

Post by Varelion »

input_sh wrote: post #171
coreyh14444 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

unequivocally goes to far imo. The rockets are good and cool.

I see his barely a year old "awkward hand gesture" or tuning into AfD's and Tommy Robinson's streams isn't enough of an evidence for some.

No amount of evidence can convince most to believe what they don't want to believe. At this point, all you really have to do is look at policy and behavior -- the rest should just be funny icing on a woefully funny cake.

Re: Political bias in AI: Where the AI models stand

#313

Post by ndsipa_pomu »

xigoi wrote: post #280
rootusrootus wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The 1D thing is an obvious over-simplification In general I agree, but in recent history it works pretty well if the dimension you use is Trump rather than left/right (assuming you are in the US). He is the most polarizing leader I have seen in the US in my lifetime, and knowing whether someone is a supporter is pretty good at predicting the rest of their viewpoints.

I don’t agree with Trump on most things, but my beliefs also definitely don’t agree with most people who hate Trump.

I can't make much sense of that. Can you give a few examples?

As I interpret it, suppose that you disagree with Trump about the usefulness of tariffs. Now, I personally hate Trump (due to his many personality faults such as narcissism, bullying, lying etc) and I also don't think that tariffs are that useful, or at least not how Trump has tried to use them. So, does that mean that you don't agree with my views on tariffs or that you don't agree with my views on Trump or both?

Re: Political bias in AI: Where the AI models stand

#314

Post by Hardcore00 »

juliushuijnk wrote: post #282
giancarlostoro wrote: post #8

The political compass always felt like the wrong tool to convey something as nuanced as personal politics, I can have views on all four quadrants but you'd never know that if I end up in any of all four. I do think Grok being where it is sort of makes sense, I've tested "MAGA" views against Grok, it does not agree as much as people blindly assume it does, heck I don't even know of a question I've given it where it di…

> I've tested "MAGA" views against Grok, it does not agree as much as people blindly assume it does, Looking from the outside, there are no MAGA views, it's just whatever Trump says. What should be the AI's view on international wars for oil or ego?

Thats the thing people dont understand about cults. They aren’t driven by some higher ideology. They are driven by behavior and ritual. There are so many instances of issues like Iran war walked back and maga will cheer it on as “masterclass” or “4d chess.” The ritual that psychologically binds the cult is defending trump. Members of the cult don’t need to be politically educated or have deeper philosophical views. They just only need to know that the "Big Other" (the media, political opponents, tech critics) hates Trump and by ritually defending him becomes an effortless way to signal defiance to the “the Big Other.”

Re: Political bias in AI: Where the AI models stand

#315

Post by amanaplanacanal »

kannanvijayan wrote: post #304
PeterStuer wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The concepts (left/right. authoritarian/libertarian) seem to fluid to help sensemaking. Stances that would have been mainstream left (democrat US) just a few years ago are now labeled MAGA (US) or 'extreme right' (EU). And nobody seems to believe their own side is 'authoritarian', but everyone that disagrees with them is a literal ...

Isn't it more that the Republicans have co-opted many previous stances that used to be talking points to be pointed at as examples of "leftist examples of extremism"? The anti-vax, unpasteurized milk drinking, alternative medicine seeking "crunchy mom" USED to be called about by American "right" as an example of "leftist absurdity", but it seems that when that group finally found a political home that truly elevated…

Yeah, this is just another example of Trump's cult of personality. He wanted to grab the votes of RFK Jr's supporters, and the MAGA supporters changed their positions to match.

Re: Political bias in AI: Where the AI models stand

#316

Post by supertroop »

samat wrote: post #22

Real politics is 1% versus everyone. Mortgage crisis, financial bailout, inflation, taxing of labor and not the assets and assets capture by tiny percent of the population — see what MSM is pushing. This left vs right divide might been useful decades ago, but today is absolutely divide and control tactics

The 1% is responsible for white maga hating any non straight white Christian human?

Re: Political bias in AI: Where the AI models stand

#317

Post by missinglugnut »

idiotsecant wrote: post #301
xigoi wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t agree with Trump on most things, but my beliefs also definitely don’t agree with most people who hate Trump.

Truly an enlightened centrist approach for the ages.

Dude...gp comment was making the completely inoffensive point that politics has more complexity than pro/against Trump. It's almost too obvious to say, but it wasn't really being factored into the discussion so it was worth pointing out.

It's like the blandest thing a person can say, don't get triggered and be a jerk about it.

Re: Political bias in AI: Where the AI models stand

#319

Post by amanaplanacanal »

uyzstvqs wrote: post #126

Of course I have my political opinions and world views, but I absolutely do not want an LLM to mirror my opinions, or even worse try to mirror the opinions of "my political side". I also don't need "an LLMs opinion". I need it to give me all relevant sides to an argument, as well as what dialogue and debates have been happening.

"residents are taking that anger out on immigrants across the continent, leading to regressive policies being passed" sounds like the US.

Re: Political bias in AI: Where the AI models stand

#320

Post by Jordan-117 »

tsss wrote: post #291
Jordan-117 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm amazed that the big models haven't come under more ideological pressure as more and more people use them, especially in the US. There was that conflict with Anthropic over military usage, but apart from that there's been no visible push to censor outputs or alter training, even as models gamely make unflattering assessments of people in power and knock down conspiracy theories.

You're surprised? They lean to the side that is heavily favored by the cultural mainstream.

The current admin has been hostile to many things with mainstream cultural support (food aid, renewable energy, basic diversity, free speech) while championing unpopular/fringe ideas (anti-vax, tariffs, Christian nationalism, election denial, January 6th revisionism, aggressive foreign interventions). The fact they haven't learned on the AI labs to toe the party line is surprising, especially since they're so vulnerable to government regulation.
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