Amazon CEO's talks with U.S. officials triggered crackdown on Anthropic models • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon CEO's talks with U.S. officials triggered crackdown on Anthropic models

#311

Post by roncesvalles » Sat, Jun 13, 2026, 9:46 PM UTC

trhway wrote: post #224

Jcampuzano2 wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason is pretty obvious. Anthropic tried to play hardball with the government and now they are under their thumb for scrutiny of any and every little thing they do. That's what this admin is known for. If you do even what a normal person would think is sane but they don't like it, well now they need to make you bow down and break you so you "learn your lesson". It doesn't help that they themselves marketed this…

>The reason is pretty obvious. Anthropic tried to play hardball with the government that is one. Another is who is going into the first IPO. Troubles for Anthropic IPO would channel all those money into OpenAI's one. Check financial interests of this admin. Hint - they aren't with Anthropic. Third - most of the export and access controlled tech of the past wasn't productivity multiplier, nor human replacement. AI is…

>Troubles for Anthropic IPO would channel all those money into OpenAI's one.

Troubles for Anthropic would almost certainly affect OpenAI, significantly. Yesterday just proved that the government sees it within their remit to shut down AI models. All current and future AI investment now has to contend with this risk. You should even see the effect of this decision on SPCX on market open despite X.ai being whatever tiny fraction that it is.

Re: Amazon CEO's talks with U.S. officials triggered crackdown on Anthropic models

#312

Post by himata4113 » Sat, Jun 13, 2026, 9:48 PM UTC

zozbot234 wrote: post #302

himata4113 wrote: post #27

First of all I found that fable is trained in a way that even if you were to jailbreak it, it would be completely uninterested in exploitation or finding creative solutions for explotation. However, I am unable to verify if this is related to them doing secretive prompt injection. Opus 4.8 is far more powerful in that regard. As for jailbreaking if anyone is interested: I used a fork of oh-my-pi that was modified in…

> First of all I found that fable is trained in a way that even if you were to jailbreak it, it would be completely uninterested in exploitation or finding creative solutions for explotation. This is quite relevant if true. People have tried to argue for this restriction by claiming the exact opposite, i.e. that a basic jailbreak of Fable immediately exposes Mythos's cyber offense capabilities. E.g. https://news.ycom…

I mean it's possible that I just haven't found the secret sauce or I'm running into the invisible guardrails and that people have much stronger jailbreaks than I do.

However, I would not rule out openai involvement in all of this.

Re: Amazon CEO's talks with U.S. officials triggered crackdown on Anthropic models

#313

Post by swyx » Sat, Jun 13, 2026, 9:48 PM UTC

eranation wrote: post #209

fny wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To give you further perspective, Amazon has a $50B stake in OpenAI and a $5B stake in Anthropic. If things were flipped, I highly doubt Amazon would be running straight to the feds.

Interesting point. Just a small correction, the Anthropic stake is higher. ($13B + another $20B option if they hit certain milestones, which I believe is almost guaranteed) So it's closer to $33B In any case, there is no reason for them to purposefully hurt Anthropic. I would say that this government "takedown" of Mythos is great free advertising. I mean, if you look at this, they said it's too risky to launch, we al…

> the technical savviness of this administration is not the thing it's most famous for

you cast aspersions here but honestly name one in the last 50 years that is more tech literate

Re: Amazon CEO's talks with U.S. officials triggered crackdown on Anthropic models

#314

Post by madflo » Sat, Jun 13, 2026, 9:48 PM UTC

putting my old man cap on and I would like to weigh in on the US admin export control on Mythos.

It does remind me of the mid-1990s when suddenly asymmetric cryptographic tools such as PGP became a reality and a wide usage possible due to the growing base of internet users.

Governments (US, France…) did not understand how to regulate and banned export (and asked users to apply for a licence).

I do see a strong parallel with the situation that we are currently living.

What’s interesting is what’s happened out of the few years where regulations were strong enough to reduce innovation.

Well, open source won for the common and everyday uses, and even more powerful crypto has been developed and used by corporations and governments.

I can certainly imagine LLMs taking a similar path.

Re: Amazon CEO's talks with U.S. officials triggered crackdown on Anthropic models

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Post by conradkay » Sat, Jun 13, 2026, 9:49 PM UTC

thayne wrote: post #279

Topfi wrote: post #71

I still am struggling to understand why they informed the government about something that is known to be an issue in every LLM. There is no LLM that cannot be jailbroken, so unless this means that we have reached the absolute maximum publicly accessible US made LLMs are allowed to operate at with GPT 5.5, this is not grounded in any sane regulation attempt. Does anyone know what limits Fable 5 has overstepped in the…

The only reason I can see is because Amazon wanted something like this to happen. But I'm not sure what Amazon would gain from that, since they don't have their own competing frontier models.

My guess is that they liked the status quo with Project Glasswing and didn't want Fable to be public, especially if anyone is jailbreaking it into Mythos and using it for cyber

But then it backfired spectacularly and now it seems they can't use Mythos currently

Re: Amazon CEO's talks with U.S. officials triggered crackdown on Anthropic models

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Post by I_am_tiberius » Sat, Jun 13, 2026, 9:50 PM UTC

codingdave wrote: post #310

I_am_tiberius wrote: post #164

Why is it only foreigners who should get blocked then? Does that make sense?

That is the only way it is legal. This was an export directive from the Commerce department, using authority granted by Congress to control exports of tech. If they just told Anthropic to shut down a model without invoking an emergency order of export, there would be no legal authority for such an order. Keep in mind that for all the troubles and trauma caused by the current USA government, they are really good at ma…

Ok, but then the government's argumentation doesn't make sense? If the reason for shutting it down is that it's dangerous, only shutting it down for non US citizens doesn't solve the problem.

Re: Amazon CEO's talks with U.S. officials triggered crackdown on Anthropic models

#317

Post by beachy » Sat, Jun 13, 2026, 9:50 PM UTC

ahtihn wrote: post #309

Telemakhos wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alternatively, this is the best advertising for which Anthropic could hope: "Our product, and nobody else's, is so good that the government declared us a threat to national security." If they bring it back for US-nationals only, maybe demanding ID for users, people will think it's the bees knees: "so dangerous that non-Americans can't have access" probably sounds like a ringing endorsement to some C-level decision ma…

What good is advertising if they can't actually sell the product?

Customers (especially large ones) don't so much buy individual specific products, they buy into a company and its prospects. Customers don't want to chop and change. They want to lock in with the leader.

This whole thing shrieks out that Anthropic is at the head of the pack, with the most capable models.

It hardly matters in the customer's mind that today they can't buy this specific model.

Re: Amazon CEO's talks with U.S. officials triggered crackdown on Anthropic models

#318

Post by binyu » Sat, Jun 13, 2026, 9:51 PM UTC

himata4113 wrote: post #312

zozbot234 wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> First of all I found that fable is trained in a way that even if you were to jailbreak it, it would be completely uninterested in exploitation or finding creative solutions for explotation. This is quite relevant if true. People have tried to argue for this restriction by claiming the exact opposite, i.e. that a basic jailbreak of Fable immediately exposes Mythos's cyber offense capabilities. E.g. https://news.ycom…

I mean it's possible that I just haven't found the secret sauce or I'm running into the invisible guardrails and that people have much stronger jailbreaks than I do. However, I would not rule out openai involvement in all of this.

I was able to use Fable to generate PoC for several classes of vulnerabilities and I didn't observe the model refusing to engage in detailed analysis to come up with creative approaches, the very contrary.

> I used a fork of oh-my-pi

Why not use the leaked claude code source? Not that you really need it to execute the jailbreak

Re: Amazon CEO's talks with U.S. officials triggered crackdown on Anthropic models

#319

Post by Topfi » Sat, Jun 13, 2026, 9:52 PM UTC

themgt wrote: post #278

Topfi wrote: post #71

I still am struggling to understand why they informed the government about something that is known to be an issue in every LLM. There is no LLM that cannot be jailbroken, so unless this means that we have reached the absolute maximum publicly accessible US made LLMs are allowed to operate at with GPT 5.5, this is not grounded in any sane regulation attempt. Does anyone know what limits Fable 5 has overstepped in the…

I submitted separately, but this Axios report has some details that call a lot of the speculation in this thread into question, i.e. that this wasn't much of a "jailbreak" at all and that it's not Anthropic-specific - the White House intends to generally regulate Mythos-class models (whatever exactly that means): Between the lines: The government's response "seems way out of line with what's actually in the research…

Interesting. Hope there is any clarification on what "Mythos level" is and why 5.5-cyber doesn't arise to it. Any metric I could come up with (parameters, pre-train compute, benchmark scores, etc.) seems somewhere between imperfect and utterly nonsensical. Pure speculation, but GPT-5 series models including the new 5.5 pre-train appear far closer to Sonnet than Opus or Fable in pure parameter count, so maybe that's it, but the "they do not surpass the bar that Mythos set" line sounds more like there is a believe that Mythos/Fable are more capable in cybersecurity tasks, whereas the data [0] doesn't seem to bare this out. I did not do any cybersecurity assessment of Fable 5 myself, partly due to personal reasons that make that something I'm abstaining from, but my coding evals showed that while task adherence and assessment wise it was neck and neck with 5.5, the task inference was a major jump again (something prior Anthropic models tended to already do incredibly well on) and while that makes it a far better model to work with for UX experiments, I don't see how that translates to cybersecurity, along with the aforementioned publicly available evals by AISI.

Seeing as neither Mythos nor GPT-5.5 had been pre-trained with a particular focus on cybersecurity, this would have to mean any model that benchmarks better than GPT-5.4 or Opus 4.6 on these tasks cannot be used by None-US-Citizens. If such guidance isn't enforced for all US labs, I think that's irrefutable evidence that this isn't about cybersecurity or "the bar that Mythos set"...

[0] https://xcancel.com/AISecurityInst/status/205458976317312633...

Re: Amazon CEO's talks with U.S. officials triggered crackdown on Anthropic models

#320

Post by brianjking » Sat, Jun 13, 2026, 9:54 PM UTC

thayne wrote: post #279

Topfi wrote: post #71

I still am struggling to understand why they informed the government about something that is known to be an issue in every LLM. There is no LLM that cannot be jailbroken, so unless this means that we have reached the absolute maximum publicly accessible US made LLMs are allowed to operate at with GPT 5.5, this is not grounded in any sane regulation attempt. Does anyone know what limits Fable 5 has overstepped in the…

The only reason I can see is because Amazon wanted something like this to happen. But I'm not sure what Amazon would gain from that, since they don't have their own competing frontier models.

...Not to mention that they're investors in Anthropic.