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A walking tour of surveillance infrastructure in Seattle (2020)

coveillance.org

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Re: A walking tour of surveillance infrastructure in Seattle (2020)

#311
post #70
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kind of moot if, when the police allegedly call you to report finding your stolen car, they use misleading caller ID and don't leave a message.

Not really sure what this has to do with my comment, it just sounds like you're airing a personal grievance with an individual in a police department.

It's one more anecdote to the anecdata of police being generally useless.

Re: A walking tour of surveillance infrastructure in Seattle (2020)

#312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't work but it does let people fantasize about being allowed to shoot someone to death legally.

Well there are working alternatives to that: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_El_Salvador

Yes, I suppose we could in fact do corrupt bargains with criminal groups and then throw a bunch of people in jail without worrying too much about whether they're guilty or not. Bukele isn't the first person in the world to think of that. Mussolini had a similar approach.

Re: A walking tour of surveillance infrastructure in Seattle (2020)

#313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't work but it does let people fantasize about being allowed to shoot someone to death legally.

I have actually killed , before. Given similar circumstances: would, again. I am a free man, walking among you; they let me carry a gun, still. Self defense ought'a be allowable, and is a deterrent (even if only "statistically" ... which it is). Recent enhancing legal protections represent the shifting tides as our economy wavers into "survival" mode – ¿perhaps a Depression 3.0? – certainly it's bleak here in the wor…

I can't say someone gleeful and proud of having killed is exactly changing my mind.

Re: A walking tour of surveillance infrastructure in Seattle (2020)

#314

Saying that patterns are dangerous because they can reinforce stereotypes sounds a lot like you are saying the stereotypes are true.

I don't agree. Stereotypes that are wrong but get reinforced by selective reporting are bad. Let's say a person believes that (to pick an absurd example) all Scottish people are rapists. Every time he reads a headline "Scottish man rapes woman" his belief will strengthen, but when he reads "Irish man rapes woman" it won't weaken. And of course there are no headlines saying "Scottish man does not rape woman".

Ubiquitous surveillance and publication of crimes has the potential to industrialize this process. If there are more rape headlines going around, then of course there will be more where the perpetrator is Scottish and the ratchet advances more quickly.

Especially if you use machine learning which easily reinforces biases. If you train it on lots of Scottish rape cases it'll learn a lower threshold for detecting Scottish people as rapists and then your bias has translated into a real statistical difference in detected crimes and even a difference in arrests and convictions.

Re: A walking tour of surveillance infrastructure in Seattle (2020)

#315

This is an example of a political science phenomenon: delegation of authority. The state itself can't deal with a problem (sky-high nuisance and property crime rates) so people are taking the issue into their own hands. That's also why all this video surveillance startup that shall remain unnamed is still doing quite well: a lot of people WANT cameras to watch every movement in the streets. What is the fix? Solve the…

Is that the original problem or is it already downstream of something?

Re: A walking tour of surveillance infrastructure in Seattle (2020)

#316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have actually killed , before. Given similar circumstances: would, again. I am a free man, walking among you; they let me carry a gun, still. Self defense ought'a be allowable, and is a deterrent (even if only "statistically" ... which it is). Recent enhancing legal protections represent the shifting tides as our economy wavers into "survival" mode – ¿perhaps a Depression 3.0? – certainly it's bleak here in the wor…

I can't say someone gleeful and proud of having killed is exactly changing my mind.

Any parent would have been proud of what I've accomplished.

Do you actually have any questions, or just angry?

Re: A walking tour of surveillance infrastructure in Seattle (2020)

#317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But.... you can get statistics on anything you like, if you are prepared to fund (or defund) them. If you pay to see the relation between crime and how many cats there are in a neighbourhood, you can get that! Ie statistics themselves are part of the game.

So, we believe nothing? Or, we demand evidence that what you assert about this set of statistics is accurate

Given that you can just throw money at the solution you want to engineer, and create the illusion of science, perhaps believing nothing is a better position to be in. At least you're not buying into what is essentially just another avenue of corporate or governance marketing.

And sorry for bringing information to your attention. Just wait till you hear about how corporates fund law.

Re: A walking tour of surveillance infrastructure in Seattle (2020)

#318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't say someone gleeful and proud of having killed is exactly changing my mind.

Any parent would have been proud of what I've accomplished. Do you actually have any questions, or just angry ?

No, I don't have any questions, nor did I ever claim to. Fishing for questions was your idea.

Re: A walking tour of surveillance infrastructure in Seattle (2020)

#319
post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's separate and has no bearing on the burden of proof, which is ALWAYS on the prosecution. It is legitimately shocking that educated Americans can be ignorant of the most basic tenet of our justice system, the presumption of innocence.

I guess no crime can ever occur then, since you can never prove it wasn't consensual? Oh you were caught in 4k walking down the street smashing every windshield with a crowbar. But how can they prove all the car owners didn't pay you to do that for a film project?

I have no idea what you want me to say. The presumption of innocence is the most basic, fundamental, indisputable element of the US justice system, it dates to the Anglo-Saxons, and it's part of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights: https://www.prosecutorintegrity.org/innocence/cornerstone/

Re: A walking tour of surveillance infrastructure in Seattle (2020)

#320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question, do we know why crime isn’t being prosecuted anymore? I’ve noticed where I live this definitely seems to be the case and has a two fold effect, police aren’t even bothering to enforce laws because when they do the city/county refuses to prosecute and then criminals are getting wise to this and escalating their crimes. Previously where I live there would be violent crimes but generally in the early hou…

There's a lot here to unpack - and it's incredibly nuanced. Crime in most countries is on the decline, there have been "blips" or "spikes", but the reality is that crime is decreasing. When people talk about communities not being policed, there's also multiple things at play - partly it's perception, which is subjective, and not very reliable (back in my dayyyyyy), and partly it's about focus. As for prosecution - mo…

> the reality is that crime is decreasing

This is the problem with assuming stats == reality. The ground reality often does not match the overall stats.

Overall, crime seems to be decreasing. But this doesn’t help in areas like mine, where the population is growing, taxes are increasing, and crime is rising, yet budgets for adequate LE/justice resources seem to be decreasing or not keeping pace with crime growth. This seems to be fairly common in growing areas of the western US.

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