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Can we have the day off?

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Re: Can we have the day off?

#311

Post by toofy »

mastazi wrote: post #294
nlawalker wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Salaried employees aren't paid for their time, they're paid for a combination of their output and their availability . Availability used to be strongly coupled with time but technology has introduced some flexibility there.

Can you give some examples of jobs that are usually done by salaried employees and are paid by output? All the examples I can think of, are usually done by independent contractors.

i think we could say with a high level of certainty that someone with a subpar output will typically be punished in some way.

it feels very disingenuous to pretend there aren’t expectations of a certain level of output.

Re: Can we have the day off?

#312

Post by jmward01 »

We need to get creative in ways that help. I am personally for: - sabbaticals - flat out taking 2 years off every 5 to go back to school full time - the mid weekend (don't give me Friday. Give me Wednesday!) - Massive increases to new baby time off programs - early retirement -but- with the encouragement to start fresh in a new field after a transition break. - Of course, just more time off. But -require- it. If you don't take your yearly vacation time you miss out on the 'vacation bonus check'.

You want to create jobs? Find ways to get people legitimately out of the workforce. By that I mean out of the workforce but still spending money and improving their skills for when they come back in.

Re: Can we have the day off?

#313

Post by thewebguyd »

cattown wrote: post #33

This article is kind of playful, but I think there’s a serious point here that’s not discussed enough. We’re being asked to usher in huge productivity gains by introducing AI to our workflows, but we’re not asking how does it help us? Not a lot of us stand to directly gain from our employers becoming more productive. I know everybody is afraid of getting fired and replaced with AI or whatever right now. But we should…

> Or when our paycheck is going to be multiplied accordingly.

And when/if it doesn't, unionize. I know the HN crowd historically hasn't looked favorably on Unions, but times are changing. It's long past time for unions in tech. We've fared well individually for a long time, but that time is coming to an end.

Re: Can we have the day off?

#314

Post by UncleOxidant »

mastazi wrote: post #277
theptip wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it’s pretty naive to ask your employer for a day off. As experienced by companies, the market is more competitive than ever. Whoever slows down will get eaten by some hungry upstart that is willing to work 996 to eat the incumbent’s lunch. It’s a Prisoner’s Dilemma. The only way to get this outcome is to coordinate at a level higher than individual market participants. In other words, get your government to i…

> I think it’s pretty naive to ask your employer for a day off. Someone said the same before 1938, probably [1] I think it's possible that AI will bring as much of a shift to our lives as the industrial revolution did, so it might be necessary to make some adjustments, just like we did back then. [1] https://www.history.com/articles/five-day-work-week-labor-mo...

yep. The Progressive Era (with it's 5 day work week women's suffrage ) came after, and was a backlash to The Gilded Age. Now we're in Gilded Age II (Gilded Age on Steroids). Hopefully we'll see history repeat itself and we get Progressive Era II. But keep in mind that the Progressive Era only lasted about 20 years, if that long.

Re: Can we have the day off?

#315

Post by zeroonetwothree »

Ancalagon wrote: post #206
moduspol wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Computers and the Internet ushered in huge productivity gains. Despite many people losing their jobs as a result, it's tough to argue society isn't better off. I think that's the key difference with AI, though. It's not like I'm losing my job, but at least I have a robot at home that cleans the house and does my laundry. People are having their livelihoods threatened while their utility bills go up because of datacen…

Is society better off? Honest question, you used to be able to support a family of four with a single 9-5.

You could still do that if you are ok living at 1950 standard of living. Average income back then was $26k in today’s dollars. Even low paying jobs today are better than that.

I’m sure you will say something about housing costing more, which it does. But also many things cost less, such as food and clothing.

Re: Can we have the day off?

#316

Post by quadrifoliate »

Avicebron wrote: post #283
d4mi3n wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless one choses to bargain. Perhaps collectively.

[flagged]

I don't understand why people make these hyperbolic jokes about guillotines. Violence is counterproductive; and not practical anyway. Joking about it just makes you feel great without actually doing anything.

There is a simple alternative. Vote; and educate your family and friends.

If you don't know what is on the ballot in the midterms, you are part of the problem. If you aren't starting a family conversation about how corporations are squeezing us, you are part of the problem.

Re: Can we have the day off?

#317

Post by zeroonetwothree »

Auracle wrote: post #272
esikich wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is this relevant? The houses built in the 60s aren't affordable either. Look at median income and median home prices. You're telling on yourself. Average families aren't buying prepared food and they have a washing machine from the 90s they bought on craigslist. There's a 90% chance if you are on this site, you are not average. You are a part of the haves and you need to consider that you are living a very differ…

> The houses built in the 60s aren't affordable either. Far, far more people and the same amount of land. > Average families aren't buying prepared food and they have a washing machine from the 90s they bought on craigslist. Well, that's just not true. The average person is absolutely terrible with their money. Not only are they buying prepared food, they're paying someone to drive it to their house.

According to USDA average spending on restaurants is around $4k/yr. So close to 10% of average income.

Re: Can we have the day off?

#318

Post by hunter-gatherer »

zeroonetwothree wrote: post #306
esikich wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's impossible to argue we are better off. This comment is so detached from reality it's almost offensive. Education is unaffordable, health care is unaffordable, homes are unaffordable, the rich have gotten massively richer, the middle class has been gutted, suicides are up, birth rates are down... I could go on and on. It's gotten better for the 1% but the rest of us are being boiled like frogs. To the poi…

Median income is vastly higher. Did you live before ~1990? Standard of living was a lot lower back then, it’s pretty apparent.

Maybe in some places??? I am an 80s kid, and was raised with what we'd call something like lower middle class. Neither parent has a college education, worked minimum wage, and owned a home and fed 4 kids. We didn't have as much stuff... But we sure were outside and playing a lot more back then.

Re: Can we have the day off?

#319

Post by zeroonetwothree »

throw0101a wrote: post #255
moduspol wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Computers and the Internet ushered in huge productivity gains. Despite many people losing their jobs as a result, it's tough to argue society isn't better off. I think that's the key difference with AI, though. It's not like I'm losing my job, but at least I have a robot at home that cleans the house and does my laundry. People are having their livelihoods threatened while their utility bills go up because of datacen…

> Computers and the Internet ushered in huge productivity gains. “You can see the computer age everywhere but in the productivity statistics.” — Robert Solow * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Productivity_paradox * https://www.brookings.edu/articles/the-solow-productivity-pa... Connectivity/the Internet gave a bit of a boost during the 1990s, but the numbers pearked around 2004: * https://www.milkenreview.org/articles/…

We wouldn’t expect productivity to keep growing from one innovation. Growth requires new innovations every year. So in the absence of innovations productivity would stop increasing.

Re: Can we have the day off?

#320

Post by quadrifoliate »

__loam wrote: post #307
quadrifoliate wrote: post #298

The solution to this is political. Under hyper-efficient capitalism, if there is truly such a 10x productivity improvement, a large number of people will be laid off in response and the rest will be squeezed. This is already happening. The logical response should be to elect left-leaning politicians that recognize this; or educate your existing left-leaning politicians; or stand for office yourself with this as your…

Also start a union at your company and sue them if they retaliate.

Depending on your workplace and professional circle, influencing political opinions may be easier than unionizing. But both can be done.
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