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Using AI to write better code more slowly

nolanlawson.com

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Re: Using AI to write better code more slowly

#311

Post by cdelsolar »

cold_harbor wrote: post #303
a_bonobo wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really like this pattern and use it often, this 'not showing my cards'. The second I hint towards the LLM what I prefer it will become sycophantic and invent nonsense why my preferred solution is better. I'm sure there's an interesting study on how users 'leak' their preference unintentionally to the LLM; perhaps when users list their options, they often put their prefered option first; but not showing the cards on…

LLMs flip positions when users push back ~70% of the time even when they were right. RLHF optimizes for approval, not correctness

Tangentially related but I’ve been using Claude to practice interviewing on system design problems, and it’s actually pretty great. But even when it likes my answers it always finds something, however small, to push on. Once it actually was completely wrong and admitted it after I had it realize. So maybe you have to prime it to be contrary and not agree with everything you say, putting it in the role of a tough interviewer seems to do this implicitly.

Re: Using AI to write better code more slowly

#314

Post by stuaxo »

Terretta wrote: post #84
qsera wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I argue about design and architecture all day with a robot. You will outgrow it at some point.

Or learn something at some point. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubber_duck_debugging

Yes, this is the way I do stuff.

Try and learn at every point.

Re: Using AI to write better code more slowly

#315

Post by throwatdem12311 »

bad_username wrote: post #149

We may be in the last Golden age of AI, where experienced professionals still exist who can code manually, and AI already exists who can code automatically, and when the former use the latter skillfully, wonders happen. This magical intersection may not exist iin the future, or become very rare.

Token efficiency is going to be the next big thing.

Tokenmaxxing an army of juniors will destroy your business through slop induced tech debt and API costs. A senior that uses AI but is token efficient will be like rocket fuel.

Re: Using AI to write better code more slowly

#316

Post by stuaxo »

BillStrong wrote: post #139
qsera wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You argue to teach yourself. Oh. I am aware. It is not that deep. But who you argues with still matter. There was a point where I have abandoned Reddit and HN. I came back to HN because people here also seem to have grown up. Reddit stays mostly the same. I credit the moderation here for that, I mean allowing people to grow out of the echo chamber.

It does to an extent. One thing I will give AI, because of the nature of LLMs, you are essentially arguing with the median level of the input that trained the model. So, for someone new to the subject, you get access to patterns that will bring them up to a certain level. Getting past that is problem we face now.

That may well need more than the models, somehow put it better than me: these LLMs have no taste - nor can they as thins are.

Re: Using AI to write better code more slowly

#317

Post by zendist »

gitaarik wrote: post #216
justinlivi wrote: post #11

I find myself spending on average more time in LLM review/resolution loops than it would take for me to write the code by hand. Partially because once I'm in the flow I write very very quickly and the code pours out sometimes faster than I can write. But also because the LLM code on the first few tries is generally really really bad. What I find interesting though is that spending the time to personally review and di…

This feels like a comment from 2 years ago; by now the most modern models write much better code than humans can in much shorter time. But if you're not used to code reviewing, it can certainly help to still write yourself.

> models write much better code than humans can

What? I think this is either over exaggerating model capabilities or you haven't seen much good code from humans?

My experience is that my colleagues which have bought into model-first development have regressed in quality of the PRs they send out. LLMs are not better coders, in my experience. They lack holistic understanding and often need course correction for that reason. At least in medium to highly complicated systems.

Re: Using AI to write better code more slowly

#320

Post by gitaarik »

zendist wrote: post #317
gitaarik wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This feels like a comment from 2 years ago; by now the most modern models write much better code than humans can in much shorter time. But if you're not used to code reviewing, it can certainly help to still write yourself.

> models write much better code than humans can What? I think this is either over exaggerating model capabilities or you haven't seen much good code from humans? My experience is that my colleagues which have bought into model-first development have regressed in quality of the PRs they send out. LLMs are not better coders, in my experience. They lack holistic understanding and often need course correction for that re…

Fair enough; I'm talking about relatively "small" snippets, that with reasoning algorithms, can quickly give you a better result than you would get if you let a mediocre or even senior developer would give an hour.

Managing a complete codebase, making architectural decisions, designing business logic; that is not something you should let your agent do.

But I see that as a different task from "coding".

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