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Elon Musk has lost his lawsuit against Sam Altman and OpenAI

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Re: Elon Musk has lost his lawsuit against Sam Altman and OpenAI

#311

Post by dnnddidiej »

gamblor956 wrote: post #267
atom_arranger wrote: post #137

Aside from the disagreements between these parties, what about the precedent of running a non-profit, and then transferring all IP to a for profit when it’s convenient to do so? I wonder if the government or taxpayers have a case to bring regarding that.

The non-profit received shares in the for-profit as a result of the transfer. Those shares are theoretically worth hundreds of billions. If it had been a for-profit company contributing assets to another for-profit company, the transaction would not have had any different tax consequence.

Wasn't an arms length transaction so shennanigans (or lack of) cannot be proved.

(This is just a thought IANAL)

Re: Elon Musk has lost his lawsuit against Sam Altman and OpenAI

#313

Post by tpmoney »

ryandrake wrote: post #153
granzymes wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whether the claim accrued before the statute of limitations expired is a question of fact, and is therefore reserved for the fact-finder which in this case was the jury.

It seems to me like justice should be about right vs wrong and illegal vs legal, and not “did you fill out form 27B/6 on time?” Dismissing a case on these kinds of trivial procedural grounds seems like the court just doesn’t want to do its job.

Have you ever gotten into a fender bender and not had insurance involved? After resolving that situation, do you think it would be "justice" for the person you got into the fender bender with to come after you 20 years after the fact demanding compensation for 20 years of medical bills that they swear is related to injuries sustained in that horrific crash that you negligently caused? How would you even begin to construct a defense for yourself? Even assuming you still had the car, what is the likelihood it's in the same condition it was after that collision? How likely is it that you have a perfect 20 years of maintenance and repair records for that car? How likely is it that you have any evidence about what medications or substances you were or were not taking 20 years ago? How likely is it you could find any witnesses to the wreck from 20 years ago?

At a certain point, "justice" is deciding that it is impossible to fairly and reasonably adjudicate the dispute in question, and that it is better to have let a guilty person go free than to punish an innocent person. Statutes of limitation are one part of that package of procedures we have in place to make the process as fair and equitable as possible.

Re: Elon Musk has lost his lawsuit against Sam Altman and OpenAI

#314

Post by HardCodedBias »

greenpizza13 wrote: post #272
asadm wrote: post #258

I feel like there still needs to be a penalty to OpenAI here even if that doesn't favor Musk (even though he funded the whole thing). It is still a theft.

Need standing to claim theft, need to be within statue of limitations. It's not theft unless a jury says it is, they didn't say it is.

I think that your first statement is correct.

I do not think that your second was correct.

Re: Elon Musk has lost his lawsuit against Sam Altman and OpenAI

#315

Post by JumpCrisscross »

48terry wrote: post #309
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Does anyone seriously still believe this? I do. It’s not his singular focus. But he continues to personally invest himself in pushing the boundaries of human spacefaring capability. That goal seems more meaningful to him that it does to e.g. Bezos, who seems to have a rocket company to look cool.

> pushing the boundaries of human spacefaring capability I guess polluting space with shitty satellites and causing environmental disasters with failed and questionably-permitted rocket launches is, technically, pushing on boundaries of human spacefaring capability.

> guess polluting space with shitty satellites and causing environmental disasters with failed and questionably-permitted rocket launches is, technically, pushing on boundaries of human spacefaring capability

My cat is both cute and fluffy as well as a menace.

Re: Elon Musk has lost his lawsuit against Sam Altman and OpenAI

#316

Post by htx80nerd »

keeda wrote: post #173

While none of the billionnaires on the stand came across as stellar paragons of virtue, it's hilarious that even they could not stand Elon. That said, even though Altman is a shifty dude who's clearly playing a Game of Thrones while all others are playing Capitalism, I am extremely grateful that it's him running OpenAI and not Elon. Seeing what Elon has done to Twitter, I shudder to think of what he'd do with ChatGPT…

[flagged]

Re: Elon Musk has lost his lawsuit against Sam Altman and OpenAI

#317

Post by 4dfg »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #245
hdndjsbbs wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does anyone seriously still believe this? I thought as a society we had realized Musk is simply BSing whatever he feels like until it becomes untenable.

> Does anyone seriously still believe this? I do. It’s not his singular focus. But he continues to personally invest himself in pushing the boundaries of human spacefaring capability. That goal seems more meaningful to him that it does to e.g. Bezos, who seems to have a rocket company to look cool.

What a load of crap. He pushes this narrative purely for valuation purposes.

He has a legion of people propping up his stock by manipulating them into believing he is a wizard.

Re: Elon Musk has lost his lawsuit against Sam Altman and OpenAI

#318

Post by FrustratedMonky »

granzymes wrote: post #81

Because no one has commented yet on the legal significance: Musk lost today because the jury found that he waited too long to bring his claims. The jury answers only yes/no questions, so we do not know their exact thoughts, but it is likely they determined that the 2019 and 2021 Microsoft deals were too similar to the 2023 Microsoft deal that was the centerpiece of Musk’s lawsuit. Musk could have brought the same law…

There sure was a lot of days of testimony on Sam Altman lying, for this to come down to " statute of limitations".

Shouldn't the defense have raised the statute of limitations much earlier?

Re: Elon Musk has lost his lawsuit against Sam Altman and OpenAI

#319

Post by vardump »

awesome_dude wrote: post #282
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Does anyone seriously still believe this? I do. It’s not his singular focus. But he continues to personally invest himself in pushing the boundaries of human spacefaring capability. That goal seems more meaningful to him that it does to e.g. Bezos, who seems to have a rocket company to look cool.

I know there's a risk when Musk's name comes up that everyone takes "all against" or "all for" approach - very polarising figure. But I see a lot of that announcement, and the others someone else pointed to as his "aspirational, but ultimately never going to happen" goals - whether he believes the claims are achievable, or not, he says these things to energise people to working/paying for him to try It costs him litt…

> Tesla is falling to pieces now

Did I miss something?

Re: Elon Musk has lost his lawsuit against Sam Altman and OpenAI

#320

Post by turtlesdown11 »

freejazz wrote: post #67
pixl97 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like any case involving legal matters, they are talking about things they deeply do not understand.

More shocking than the sheer incorrectness of the legal analysis I see here often is the confidence with which it is offered.

The Dunning Kruger effect is very, very strong on HN. Also, many folks believe they are an expert in their own domain, so they must be an expert in all...you can see the Nobel disease play out in the minor leagues here.
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