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Apple Silicon costs more than OpenRouter

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Re: Apple Silicon costs more than OpenRouter

#311

Post by bcjdjsndon »

freeopinion wrote: post #148
datadrivenangel wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. The speed is the biggest issue. The intelligence of open models is good enough for serious work (though still worse than the frontier models), but the cloud models are often 3-7 times faster, and you can get more parallelization and so get speeds on the order of hundreds of tokens per second, which makes things fast!

Even extremely slow LLMs can generate Part B faster than I can audit Part A. So the LLM can generate Part A while I look over my email. Then it can worry over Part B while I look over Part A. It can worry over Part C while I have my 10:30 group meet. And it can worry over Part D while I do whatever other silly, time-wasting thing all humans do in almost all organizations. Then I still haven't reviewed Part B, yet, so…

> Even extremely slow LLMs can generate Part B faster than I can audit Part A.

Depends what part a and b are...because workloads are different

Re: Apple Silicon costs more than OpenRouter

#312

Post by shaewest »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #308
shaewest wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh I don't disagree, I hate real estate as an investment, it's a terrible asset only made "viable" by tax benefits, rent-replacement and excessive amounts of risk via leverage.

What is "rent-replacement"? I never heard that term before. I cannot find anything obvious using Google search.

It's my shortcut for describing the idea that you'd spend $X a month on either interest lost to a bank or rent lost to a landlord, and therefore you can mostly consider that a constant expense when considering rent versus mortgage.

Re: Apple Silicon costs more than OpenRouter

#313

Post by sheepscreek »

47282847 wrote: post #293
sheepscreek wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, that’s not the point. I think this is to help people who are thinking about getting a beefier Mac so they can run their LLMs on it too. Some in particular want a dedicated Mac Mini or Studio for this purpose. The breakdown, even if slightly flawed, offers a good insight into the economics of it. For most people, they might be better off with OpenRouter models and providers supporting Zero Data Retention. On the c…

> your data is never retained beyond the life of the request. Like with OpenAI for a year? ” In June 2025, the court ordered OpenAI to retain its consumer and API customer chat logs indefinitely, including any that had been deleted, so they could be investigated […]” https://www.techspot.com/news/109839-openai-no-longer-requir...

[dead]

Re: Apple Silicon costs more than OpenRouter

#314

Post by shaewest »

bcjdjsndon wrote: post #310
shaewest wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Real estate is generally a "good" investment as it's considered a relatively safe way to get significant leverage. 5x leverage in the case of a 20% deposit, or even up to 20x leverage with countries that allow for 5% deposits (New Zealand). In addition, the interest payments almost always end up being near the rent the owner would have paid, so mortgage payments are higher, but that increase is generally (and quickly…

> Real estate is generally a "good" investment as it's considered a relatively safe way to get significant leverage Leverage? People don't normally invest in property (normally involves taking out a loan) for the purpose of taking out another loan. That so called "leverage" is being used to buy the house...ie you don't have any leverage

The leverage is the loan taken for the mortgage. If you have a $1M property, $900k loan. If the property's value increases by 5%, that's $1.05M, so you've made 50% returns on your $100k capital invested. That's leverage, the leveraging of $100k to get the returns of $1M asset.

Re: Apple Silicon costs more than OpenRouter

#315

Post by reverius42 »

BoorishBears wrote: post #286
Danox wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/mac-studio/m3-ultra-chip-... https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/macbook-pro/16-inch-space...

Maybe before double posting these links, you should have considered why the eBay sold listings are for thousands over MSRP. You can't order the Mac Studio with RAM upgrades anymore, and the demand propping up prices is for AI inference

Not sure what you mean by "can't order", both of those links show purchasable, orderable computers with RAM upgrades. You can get the Mac Studio in 12 weeks or the MBP in just a few weeks, with RAM upgrades, by ordering right now on Apple's website.

Re: Apple Silicon costs more than OpenRouter

#316

Post by smallerize »

ianberdin wrote: post #69
dijit wrote: post #59

Frontier AI companies are selling at a loss. Excusing everything else that u/bastawhiz said[0]; the obvious fact here is that Claude, OpenAI, Gemini et al. are quite literally burning through 100's of billions of dollars and selling it back to you for pennies on the dollar in the hopes that they get to be the only one left. If I spend $10 growing Oranges and sell them to you for $1; then of course it's more expensive…

Do you have a proof? Anthropic’s CEO said they Are profitable. Same with OpenAI.

Anthropic says they are losing money but hope to be profitable soon, if they can double their revenue. https://techcrunch.com/2026/05/20/anthropic-says-its-about-t...

OpenAI published their operating margins today. I can't find a non-paywalled source but Judd Legum reported it to be -122%.

Re: Apple Silicon costs more than OpenRouter

#317

Post by ndiddy »

reverius42 wrote: post #315
BoorishBears wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe before double posting these links, you should have considered why the eBay sold listings are for thousands over MSRP. You can't order the Mac Studio with RAM upgrades anymore, and the demand propping up prices is for AI inference

Not sure what you mean by "can't order", both of those links show purchasable, orderable computers with RAM upgrades. You can get the Mac Studio in 12 weeks or the MBP in just a few weeks, with RAM upgrades, by ordering right now on Apple's website.

I don't know why he's being so obtuse, but Apple did discontinue the model with 512 GB of RAM, which is what's being scalped on ebay.

Re: Apple Silicon costs more than OpenRouter

#318

Post by bcjdjsndon »

shaewest wrote: post #314
bcjdjsndon wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Real estate is generally a "good" investment as it's considered a relatively safe way to get significant leverage Leverage? People don't normally invest in property (normally involves taking out a loan) for the purpose of taking out another loan. That so called "leverage" is being used to buy the house...ie you don't have any leverage

The leverage is the loan taken for the mortgage. If you have a $1M property, $900k loan. If the property's value increases by 5%, that's $1.05M, so you've made 50% returns on your $100k capital invested. That's leverage, the leveraging of $100k to get the returns of $1M asset.

> That's leverage, the leveraging of $100k to get the returns of $1M asset.

Obviously. But that's not leveraging real estate, that's just leveraging cash.

Leveraging real estate would be using the property as collateral for a loan larger than the property itself

Re: Apple Silicon costs more than OpenRouter

#319

Post by shaewest »

bcjdjsndon wrote: post #318
shaewest wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The leverage is the loan taken for the mortgage. If you have a $1M property, $900k loan. If the property's value increases by 5%, that's $1.05M, so you've made 50% returns on your $100k capital invested. That's leverage, the leveraging of $100k to get the returns of $1M asset.

> That's leverage, the leveraging of $100k to get the returns of $1M asset. Obviously. But that's not leveraging real estate, that's just leveraging cash. Leveraging real estate would be using the property as collateral for a loan larger than the property itself

Isn't it incredibly obvious in my first message that the leverage is on your deposit, and therefore leveraging the cash.

Re: Apple Silicon costs more than OpenRouter

#320

Post by rcxdude »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #290
loeg wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I was APPALLED that they wanted me to fill out an APPLICATION form, where they would decide my worth, and let me know if we would be allowed to live there. When buying a house, my cash was as good as anyone elses'. House sellers receive offers from buyers, sometimes including letters, and can choose to sell to any of them (or none of them), whether or not those offers are higher than the listed price. It's not so d…

Why would a house seller accept any offer that not the highest total price?

Real estate transactions are not very straightforward. A seller might accept a lower offer if they feel the buyer is more likely to be able to go through with the transaction or just go through it faster. And sometimes they do just plain like one buyer better.
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