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Mozilla to UK regulators: VPNs are essential privacy and security tools

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Re: Mozilla to UK regulators: VPNs are essential privacy and security tools

#311

Post by onion2k »

ropable wrote: post #295
mjmas wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The very same office of the eSafety commissioner that is enforcing age verification for social media. https://www.esafety.gov.au/newsroom/blogs/social-media-minim...

You say that like it's a bad thing. Not everyone thinks so.

Some people think it'd be reasonable to have every car reporting it's GPS position and speed to the government to stop people speeding, or to have facial recognition cameras on ever corner to catch criminals, or to make everyone carry an ID card that people can demand to see.

On the face of it living in a police state is safe, and secure, and actually increases your freedom to just live your life without pain. And if these systems were never abused that might be true. But sadly, the reality is that every time these things are implemented they end up being used against the citizens. So they're always a terrible idea.

Re: Mozilla to UK regulators: VPNs are essential privacy and security tools

#312

Post by antirealist »

tardedmeme wrote: post #299
mort96 wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right, some people are misguided and think age verification can be done in a way that isn't the death of privacy and anonymity online.

Don't we all hate social media? From that standpoint, anything that makes it hard to use or come with direct negative consequences is good.

I wholeheartedly disagree. When we consider a policy, it's not enough that the narrow outcome is good. What also matters are the broad outcomes and whether or not the policy is principled.

We presumably all hate Alex Jones. Does that mean the goverment saying "Alex Jones is banned from communicating publically" is good policy? Even if we agree the direct outcome is good (which I do), the principle of "the governement can silence people it doesn't like" is profoundly dangerous. In such a case I would argue we should all resist such a policy, even if we like the outcome (Alex Jones being silenced) because the principle (the majority can use the governement to silence a minority) is terrible. This isn't even accounting for the messy second order effects, e.g. radicalising Alex Jones supporters.

I think that applies to social media too. I don't like social media. However even more than that I'm scared of people using the government to limit what other people what they can and can't do for "their own good". This isn't a principle I think we can get behind. I think it's a principle that has motivated a lot of misguided acts in the past (e.g. criminalisation of drugs, sex work, taking the kids of first nations people in Australia, ...).

Re: Mozilla to UK regulators: VPNs are essential privacy and security tools

#313

Post by selfhoster1312 »

ropable wrote: post #295
mjmas wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The very same office of the eSafety commissioner that is enforcing age verification for social media. https://www.esafety.gov.au/newsroom/blogs/social-media-minim...

You say that like it's a bad thing. Not everyone thinks so.

I'd be interested to know how it could be a good thing.

I'm all for shutting down Facebook entirely and jailing their executives, but i don't think age verification is an appropriate answer. It's already common at least here in France for Facebook to request user ID cards (wtf) and that has not at all stopped harassment, nazism, fake news, etc...

Re: Mozilla to UK regulators: VPNs are essential privacy and security tools

#314

Post by sellmesoap »

crowcroft wrote: post #300
Lerc wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is, provided there is a broad consensuss of experts in the field who agree on the danger and what to about it, the government regulates based on that information and that the regulation is effective. Apart from those things, the Australian government did an excellent job.

Who are the experts in the field, and who decides they're experts? "More doctors smoke camels than any other cigarette".

I'd add one of these: https://fortune.com/2026/02/21/peter-thiel-bill-gates-steve-...

but uh here I am on a social media site rebroadcasting that message... I'll add that I'm for an open internet, I don't think we need age verification. Walled gardens have a lot more shade then alternatives. Becoming aware of the many forms of abstracted gambling (time, tokens, or otherwise) makes the internet a much more affordable and sane place.

Re: Mozilla to UK regulators: VPNs are essential privacy and security tools

#315

Post by rand846633 »

eastbound wrote: post #297
tim333 wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think 1984 is naive and there's maybe a certain naivete in comparing the UK protecting kids from porn to the 1984 type stuff - torture chambers for thought criminals and the like.

Tommy R was thrown feces upon him in a jail cell for 8 months (along with noise torture and losing 15% of his body weight out of food privation). Torture chambers fully exist for thought criminals in UK.

Never heard of this individual. After a bit of googling I could not find any sources that support these claims. Can you please point me to them? (Text, not video)

I found no source for:

* feces thrown on him (for 8 months)

* “noise torture”

* “torture chambers for thought criminals”

Re: Mozilla to UK regulators: VPNs are essential privacy and security tools

#316

Post by Ey7NFZ3P0nzAe »

tardedmeme wrote: post #299
mort96 wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right, some people are misguided and think age verification can be done in a way that isn't the death of privacy and anonymity online.

Don't we all hate social media? From that standpoint, anything that makes it hard to use or come with direct negative consequences is good.

Adding regulations like this makes it way harder for any competition to come out of the ground.

Re: Mozilla to UK regulators: VPNs are essential privacy and security tools

#317

Post by coldtea »

therealpygon wrote: post #263
coldtea wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The first option is to use a condom if they are in a bad financial situation. It’s been amazing how every time I’ve used one, I haven’t had a child. That's what they've been doing in unprecedented numbers. Which via demographic collapse is going to cause an even worse crisis, economic, social, political, and more, further down the line.

Good. If people can’t afford their own livelihood, then they probably shouldn’t have them. If they can and choose not to, arguments could be made about why someone would rather they make a different decision. But if “we need poor children in a welfare system or I can’t live my comfortable life” is what someone would think is the answer, there is something desperately wrong with the people who would think it.

>If people can’t afford their own livelihood, then they probably shouldn’t have them.

"Poor people shoulnd't breed" - Follow me for more ivory tower advice

Re: Mozilla to UK regulators: VPNs are essential privacy and security tools

#318

Post by ktallett »

cryo32 wrote: post #70
ktallett wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment is a little unclear. However no matter what the government or security services want, they won't be able to stop people who want to use VPN or End to end encryption. Nothing would ever change in that regard.

The technology bit doesn't really matter though. The real problem is that the legislation would bring the power to prosecute people who use them or use it against them. The security services aren't having any of that shit because it puts their position at risk both from the front-facing side and recommendations and guidance issued and from their own operations.

I hear you but how much change do you really feel we can make on the government. Whatever they end up wanting to do they will do. The bigger change we, especially those on sites like HN can make, is making sites, protocols, and new networking methods to bypass that issue. Mesh networking, sites more similar to a gopher protocol, utilising the eventual QC and Photonic computing for the community benefit, and so on. It interests me that you are rightfully anti banning vpns etc but still happy to use Google/YouTube,/unwilling to accept any slowdown. There surely has to be some sacrifice to support change.

Re: Mozilla to UK regulators: VPNs are essential privacy and security tools

#319

Post by divan »

selfhoster1312 wrote: post #313
ropable wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You say that like it's a bad thing. Not everyone thinks so.

I'd be interested to know how it could be a good thing. I'm all for shutting down Facebook entirely and jailing their executives, but i don't think age verification is an appropriate answer. It's already common at least here in France for Facebook to request user ID cards (wtf) and that has not at all stopped harassment, nazism, fake news, etc...

What age verification has to do with stopping fake news or harassment?

Re: Mozilla to UK regulators: VPNs are essential privacy and security tools

#320

Post by knorker »

selfhoster1312 wrote: post #313
ropable wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You say that like it's a bad thing. Not everyone thinks so.

I'd be interested to know how it could be a good thing. I'm all for shutting down Facebook entirely and jailing their executives, but i don't think age verification is an appropriate answer. It's already common at least here in France for Facebook to request user ID cards (wtf) and that has not at all stopped harassment, nazism, fake news, etc...

Are you talking about the goal being bad, or the methods being bad, or that the goal inherently cannot be achieved without bad methods?

E.g. I think something pretty uncontroversial would be a goal of blocking kids from the likes of TikTok & Instagram between 22:00 and 08:00.[1] But if I'm an adult, that's a different matter. Ok, so how do I prove I'm an adult, without society turning into a surveillance state, or surveillance capitalism?

Next up: wouldn't it be nice if e.g. someone over the age of 30 couldn't initiate chats (including comments on posts) with 13 year olds? For hobby exceptions (e.g. joining a computer or chess club) it would make sense to either have parental approval, or some moderation requirements for parental approval exempt groups.

[1] I'm here not saying that this is the biggest problem, but it should at least be uncontroversial.

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