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Amazon workers under pressure to up their AI usage are making up tasks

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Re: Amazon workers under pressure to up their AI usage are making up tasks

#311

Post by philipallstar »

krupan wrote: post #133
philipallstar wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We didn't. The USSR had 100% employment long ago[0], and all the poverty that goes with it. This isn't like that, as it isn't funded through taxes. This is private companies experimenting with their money, and risking downstream cost increases that may cause people to go elsewhere, as they do when they try anything new. This is much better than just funding people regardless of productivity through forced taxes. [0]…

Are you sure this isn't being funded by our taxes? How many data centers are being built in areas where they have been given a huge tax break? How many banks are loaning money for AI infrastructure knowing that they'll be bailed out by taxpayers if they fail?

A tax break isn't funding. Saying we'll take slightly less of your money is not giving money.

Either way, I don't know what this has to do with Amazon getting workers to use AI more, which is what my comment was addressing.

Re: Amazon workers under pressure to up their AI usage are making up tasks

#312

Post by philipallstar »

monkaiju wrote: post #149
philipallstar wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We didn't. The USSR had 100% employment long ago[0], and all the poverty that goes with it. This isn't like that, as it isn't funded through taxes. This is private companies experimenting with their money, and risking downstream cost increases that may cause people to go elsewhere, as they do when they try anything new. This is much better than just funding people regardless of productivity through forced taxes. [0]…

> as it isn't funded through taxes This is simply not true, especially when you consider the massive amounts of government support so many parts of this "experiment with their own money" is getting. As a Utah resident its extremely evident in how forcefully they're pushing through what will be one of the largest datacenters in the world despite near universal disapproval from the citizens.

Pushing through in what sense? The government is building a data centre near you that Amazon is pushing its people to use?

Re: Amazon workers under pressure to up their AI usage are making up tasks

#313

Post by philipallstar »

Qem wrote: post #82
philipallstar wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We didn't. The USSR had 100% employment long ago[0], and all the poverty that goes with it. This isn't like that, as it isn't funded through taxes. This is private companies experimenting with their money, and risking downstream cost increases that may cause people to go elsewhere, as they do when they try anything new. This is much better than just funding people regardless of productivity through forced taxes. [0]…

> We didn't. The USSR had 100% employment long ago[0], and all the poverty that goes with it. I don't think USSR poverty rates surpassed those of Tsarist Russia that preceded them. To their credit, I think ideologic competition between capitalist and communist blocks was part of what allowed improvement of life conditions of workers in capitalist countries, after WWII. Fear of revolutions avoided one-percenters takin…

No, the ideas of individual liberty, law enforcement, and private property meant that central planners couldn't mess up the US. That's all you need to massively raise standards of living. That and energy from oil.

Re: Amazon workers under pressure to up their AI usage are making up tasks

#314

Post by spatley »

swatcoder wrote: post #165
dkarl wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I kind of get what they're thinking in trying to make sure all engineers use AI. For myself, and for the engineers working with me, I saw everyone go through an initial aversion and resistance to AI, and then an instant productivity boost when we started using them. So there's definitely a good reason to get everybody to start using AI. You don't want a good engineer resisting AI indefinitely if you know it will make…

It's worth reflecting on why it's so hard to convince hold outs to discover how AI might help them. The fundamental issue is that there really aren't many convincing demonstrations that hold outs can relate to and there remains basically no evidence of real value gained. Users attest to higher productivity and point to material but intermediate factors like token use, generated lines of code, pr counts, etc, but ther…

Software engineering organizations have agreed for decades that a meaningful measure of developer productivity is a literal impossibility.

So now introduce AI and then tell every developer that they need to be 20% more effective 20% of what?

Re: Amazon workers under pressure to up their AI usage are making up tasks

#315

Post by baobabKoodaa »

treis wrote: post #301
malfist wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I brought data to this discussion. What did you bring?

Your data shows a 20% improvement. That's $20-100k a year depending on how much devs are paid.

You just compared this AI shift to "tractors on farms". Did tractors increase farming output by 20%?

Re: Amazon workers under pressure to up their AI usage are making up tasks

#316

Post by sznio »

stephenhuey wrote: post #269
dtnewman wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what inspired me to build my new CLI tool, Burn, Baby, Burn ( https://github.com/dtnewman/burn-baby-burn/tree/main ). (If you are a VP at Amazon, yes, I'll consider acquisition offers. I'm also working on an enterprise version of this with additional features.) Show HN here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48151287

Just sent it to some developers who could really benefit from this! Please let us know when you have Codex and Gemini versions ready to rumble.

I want a in-browser Gemini version. For some reason my company doesn't count Gemini CLI use. I guess I'm supposed to copy code between my browser and my editor.

Re: Amazon workers under pressure to up their AI usage are making up tasks

#317

Post by watwut »

jazz9k wrote: post #255
darth_avocado wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my first job ever, I used to get my work done on time and leave. There were a few people who’d stay in the office until late and show up on weekends. Same output, but they got the promotions and my bonus got prorated. This is the same thing.

While output may have been part of it. It's possible that by staying later (and working longer), they had better relationships with upper management. "I used to get my work done on time and leave" This sounds like you just wanted to get your work done and not foster any work relationships. This is fine, but you will not get promoted this way (as you've seen). Moving up in a company is 30% work and 70% networking/bein…

You just described a bad management - the one that favors butt in seat and rewards lack of outside life over actual benefits to company.

Re: Amazon workers under pressure to up their AI usage are making up tasks

#318

Post by darth_avocado »

jazz9k wrote: post #255
darth_avocado wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my first job ever, I used to get my work done on time and leave. There were a few people who’d stay in the office until late and show up on weekends. Same output, but they got the promotions and my bonus got prorated. This is the same thing.

While output may have been part of it. It's possible that by staying later (and working longer), they had better relationships with upper management. "I used to get my work done on time and leave" This sounds like you just wanted to get your work done and not foster any work relationships. This is fine, but you will not get promoted this way (as you've seen). Moving up in a company is 30% work and 70% networking/bein…

You’re assuming a lot here. Getting your work done on time and leaving doesn’t equate to not being likable. If it was a popularity contest, I would’ve been around the same as the people who were pretend working, if not more. My partner and my director wrote me a recommendation letter before I left, which I wouldn’t attribute to something they’d do if I was a nobody.

There are other reasons why the bad behavior gets rewarded. If the management is incompetent, they genuinely focus on the optics and not on the actual work. And if they are competent, they understand that the people who stay behind unnecessarily or come over the weekends are more exploitable in the long run. And if the people in management are the kind of people who stay behind unnecessarily, having a team full of people who do the same, rewards them as well.

Re: Amazon workers under pressure to up their AI usage are making up tasks

#319

Post by watwut »

treis wrote: post #301
malfist wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I brought data to this discussion. What did you bring?

Your data shows a 20% improvement. That's $20-100k a year depending on how much devs are paid.

They dont show that. They show 20% more PR. That is not the same as 20% more productivity.

Re: Amazon workers under pressure to up their AI usage are making up tasks

#320

Post by darth_avocado »

reactordev wrote: post #267
jazz9k wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While output may have been part of it. It's possible that by staying later (and working longer), they had better relationships with upper management. "I used to get my work done on time and leave" This sounds like you just wanted to get your work done and not foster any work relationships. This is fine, but you will not get promoted this way (as you've seen). Moving up in a company is 30% work and 70% networking/bein…

Moving up is 100% being likeable.

Likability helps you move up, competency keeps you there. The role of Likability in moving up is overstated.
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