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I moved my digital stack to Europe

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Re: I moved my digital stack to Europe

#311

Post by vanschelven »

TrackerFF wrote: post #49

For the past days I've been participating(albeit over Teams) in a conference relevant to my industry (intel), basically startups and established companies showcasing their products to a closed audience of EU gov. officials. One thing I noticed right away, is that all companies were asked "Can we fully host this from within EU or our country" from the various people in audience. Every single one. Many of the startups…

The fact that these "move off US infra" posts now routinely hit #1 on HN is itself pretty telling. Another example is the public outcry here in the Netherlands over selling off the company doing the infra for an important citizen-facing piece of government software (DigiD)...

Re: I moved my digital stack to Europe

#312

Post by embedding-shape »

vanschelven wrote: post #308
embedding-shape wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There been mumblings for as long as I've been a developer, I remember hearing about "EU data independence" first when the ePrivacy Directive came around, which must have been multiple decades ago at this point. But yeah, in recent times the sentiment became more urgent. If I were to guess, with zero data in front of me and just judging by what I remember, I think the sentiment really changed first with the ICC blocka…

Trump may genuinely end up being the best salesman European hosting companies ever had. I run one of the tools mentioned in this post (Bugsink) and I literally had an uptick of Danish people/companies (specifically) reaching out to me after Davos.

As someone who've basically started being known as "The guy who helps you move data out of US to Europe" in certain circles, I'm not complaining either :)

Re: I moved my digital stack to Europe

#313

Post by TRiG_Ireland »

GJim wrote: post #252
chasd00 wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You guys have to work a lot harder to fix your issues. As an American, that's pretty funny seeing how allies of the USA are constantly hostile toward Americans at every turn (unless we're buying a tshirt or something) and have been for many presidential administrations. Why would Americans be interested at all in what allies have to say when it's always negative anyway? When someone tells you you're their enemy lon…

> that's pretty funny seeing how allies of the USA are constantly hostile toward Americans at every turn 457 British solders dead in Afghanistan supporting US operations beg to differ. Mate, seriously, step away from the propaganda and pay attention to what is happening to your democracy. Then you might understand why your allies are losing trust.

It should be a matter of shame, not pride, to the British that they followed a jingoistic US into a needless war in Afghanistan which achieved nothing but much senseless death.

Re: I moved my digital stack to Europe

#315

Post by grey-area »

blululu wrote: post #278
embedding-shape wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Definitely a change, because it is not something I can recall being important just a couple of years ago. I work as a consultant and freelancer across a bunch of companies, some American but mostly European ones. Last ~8 months or so, the sentiment about "Hosting our data in EU or even our own country" has drastically changed, I don't think I've seen such a clear shift in public opinion so fast before. The amount o…

Out of curiosity how much of this is a manifestation of the utility of LLMs? I get the current political impetus right now but also the barrier for swapping out an infra stack was also much higher 2 years ago. From my own projects major swaps are now relatively trivial which means that vendor lock in is weak.

Precisely none of it is related to LLMs. It's related to the political situation and the possibility of trade war and tariffs.

Re: I moved my digital stack to Europe

#316

Post by ghaff »

embedding-shape wrote: post #306
blululu wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of curiosity how much of this is a manifestation of the utility of LLMs? I get the current political impetus right now but also the barrier for swapping out an infra stack was also much higher 2 years ago. From my own projects major swaps are now relatively trivial which means that vendor lock in is weak.

Besides some companies that were deep into the weeds of AWS and been pushed to enable and use every single AWS service by their reps, I don't think it's much harder/easier today than it was two years ago. Sure, LLMs help a bit with the actual typing, but the hard part is still planning, alignment and actual execution, all which are best done by humans talking and working with other humans. I don't think we're in the…

Architecting to make portability easier should absolutely be a thing. But people in the weeds of a specific public cloud provider today will absolutely need to make tradeoffs between getting to a position where they can be more portable and devoting those resources to other things.

Re: I moved my digital stack to Europe

#318

Post by GordonS »

IAmFledge wrote: post #96

I started the process of this back in January and now, at least in terms of product hosting; fully migrated into European infrastructure ( https://bannermedia.ltd ). It didn't come without a bit of pain, but glad I've done it - and to come with this I've ended up building a whole terraform setup for cross provider / cross region high availability within Europe. So far my key mappings included: - Cloudflare -> Bunny C…

> looking at Civo.com for UK presence

Hadn't come across Civo. They advertise "transparent" pricing, but I can't seem to find prices for VMs... or anything else!

Maybe it's just me, but do you have a link to a pricing page perchance?

Re: I moved my digital stack to Europe

#319

Post by leokennis »

TrackerFF wrote: post #49

For the past days I've been participating(albeit over Teams) in a conference relevant to my industry (intel), basically startups and established companies showcasing their products to a closed audience of EU gov. officials. One thing I noticed right away, is that all companies were asked "Can we fully host this from within EU or our country" from the various people in audience. Every single one. Many of the startups…

It's interesting the economic damage a few disgruntled WASP's in US swing states can do to the US economy by electing an orange toddler.

Re: I moved my digital stack to Europe

#320

Post by embedding-shape »

ghaff wrote: post #316
embedding-shape wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Besides some companies that were deep into the weeds of AWS and been pushed to enable and use every single AWS service by their reps, I don't think it's much harder/easier today than it was two years ago. Sure, LLMs help a bit with the actual typing, but the hard part is still planning, alignment and actual execution, all which are best done by humans talking and working with other humans. I don't think we're in the…

Architecting to make portability easier should absolutely be a thing. But people in the weeds of a specific public cloud provider today will absolutely need to make tradeoffs between getting to a position where they can be more portable and devoting those resources to other things.

> Architecting to make portability easier should absolutely be a thing.

It is, but it's really hard to make the right trade-offs. Usually I'd start by basically making a list of what could potentially be done to make it easier, check lightly how hard each one of those will be, then sit down with stakeholders and figure out the balance between how fast they want to move, and how risky they want the migration to be. Some opts for less safeguards and moving sooner, others for absolutely less risk but it takes the time it takes.

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