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Restore full BambuNetwork support for Bambu Lab printers

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Re: Restore full BambuNetwork support for Bambu Lab printers

#311

Post by Steltek »

nwallin wrote: post #255
jwr wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, so as a heavy user of Bambu printers: > I didn't understand what people wanted here Great: very few people care enough to actually try to understand! This is very much appreciated. > What users want is to "have their cake and eat it too;" they want the local token authentication _and_ the cloud authentication enabled at the same time No. What I want is to use any slicer software (specifically OrcaSlicer, which is…

A lot of people don't understand just how bad the 3d printer ecosystem can be. Most people understand how bad HP/Epson/Canon ink printers can get, but they really need to understand that 3d printers can be worse than that. While I kinda sorta need my 3d printer more than my 2d printer, it's an absolute nightmare in a way that my 2d printer isn't, and it's caused entirely by the dogshit proprietary software I have to…

Really? My 3D printer uses filament from any vendor. My slicer has profiles for all of these filaments and printer combinations. Hell, my 3D printer is more reliable than my 2D printer.

Re: Restore full BambuNetwork support for Bambu Lab printers

#312

Post by wat10000 »

vfvthunter wrote: post #305
wat10000 wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. They’re redistributing software under the AGPL while trying to prevent others from using the same freedoms they’ve been granted by the license.

The fact that Pawel was able to copy their source code and paste it into an Orca fork is direct proof from Pawel himself that they are honoring the AGPL. The C&D presumably wanted him to remove the ID/version string or at least stop distributing it, i.e., they only want real BambuStudio on their cloud and that was the laziest way to achieve that AGPL does not have a "don't be an asshole" clause

"Abusing" is not synonymous with "violating."

If we sign a contract that says you're allowed to park in my driveway in exchange for $10, then I threaten to sue you for parking in my driveway, technically I'm not violating our contract. It's not an issue until I actually sue. But I'm still abusing our contract by threatening you for doing something I explicitly allowed you to do.

Likewise, Bambu was able to benefit by forking and distributing AGPL software in exchange for giving everyone a license to do the same for their fork. Then they turned around and threatened legal action against someone for doing what they previously said was allowed. This may not technically be a violation but it's definitely abuse.

Re: Restore full BambuNetwork support for Bambu Lab printers

#313

Post by vfvthunter »

vfvthunter wrote: post #305
wat10000 wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. They’re redistributing software under the AGPL while trying to prevent others from using the same freedoms they’ve been granted by the license.

The fact that Pawel was able to copy their source code and paste it into an Orca fork is direct proof from Pawel himself that they are honoring the AGPL. The C&D presumably wanted him to remove the ID/version string or at least stop distributing it, i.e., they only want real BambuStudio on their cloud and that was the laziest way to achieve that AGPL does not have a "don't be an asshole" clause

Pawel still has access to the Bambu-modified software, which is what the AGPL covers. There is no violation there.

Bambu's issue is with him taking a fork of Orca and spoofing some data (from THEIR FREELY AVAILABLE SOURCE CODE) to appear as Bambustudio to their servers.

A contract that says you can park in my driveway doesn't give you permission to access my garage and use all my tools.

Absolutely a dick move but not really not abuse of a contract.

Re: Restore full BambuNetwork support for Bambu Lab printers

#314

Post by wat10000 »

vfvthunter wrote: post #313
vfvthunter wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that Pawel was able to copy their source code and paste it into an Orca fork is direct proof from Pawel himself that they are honoring the AGPL. The C&D presumably wanted him to remove the ID/version string or at least stop distributing it, i.e., they only want real BambuStudio on their cloud and that was the laziest way to achieve that AGPL does not have a "don't be an asshole" clause

Pawel still has access to the Bambu-modified software, which is what the AGPL covers. There is no violation there. Bambu's issue is with him taking a fork of Orca and spoofing some data (from THEIR FREELY AVAILABLE SOURCE CODE ) to appear as Bambustudio to their servers. A contract that says you can park in my driveway doesn't give you permission to access my garage and use all my tools. Absolutely a dick move but no…

The AGPL does not just say he has to have access to the modified software. It also says he has to be granted permission to redistribute it, or derived works, under the same terms.

He redistributed a derived work under the same terms and got hit with the threat of legal action.

I don't know what "access my garage and use all my tools" is supposed to be an analogy for in this situation.

Re: Restore full BambuNetwork support for Bambu Lab printers

#315

Post by Topfi »

joshuaissac wrote: post #308
Topfi wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I just build the software from their repo without any modifications, getting an identical result to what I can download via their website, would I be allowed to use the service? If not, why not? If yes, what if I made a modification? How much may I change and where was this ever codified? What about using an unmodified, prior version of the source code to build? Why would that not be ok?

Interesting question. In the first case, where you install your own build from unmodified source code, although AGPLv3.0 still allows discontinuing support, I see no explicit carve-out in the licence to restrict network access. However, the AGPL comes with no right to such network access to begin with. Permission to access the network would usually come separately from the AGPL; I suppose you could potentially bundle…

But they had no access control in the first place. If I built their repo without modifications, I automatically have access. I would need to make modifications not to get that access.

> [...] they can still refuse you access to their network.

Sure, they can and yes, AGPL doesn't give users right to just access services, I have said before that they may enforce their EULA upon individual users. They are however not doing that, they are harassing repo owners. Let me put it this way: If the network access were the issue, as you seem to think, why go after the dev hosting your code rather than the individual users that you claim improperly access your services.

> What they cannot do is prevent you from running your modifications on your hardware.

They also cannot prevent a developer from rehosting AGPL code, but they are trying to do that. And it's kind of the actual issue.

That's why I was asking specifically regarding what level of code modifications is acceptable for them. Because they made this an issue not about using their servers but hosting code, regardless of how it's used.

Re: Restore full BambuNetwork support for Bambu Lab printers

#316

Post by vfvthunter »

wat10000 wrote: post #314
vfvthunter wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pawel still has access to the Bambu-modified software, which is what the AGPL covers. There is no violation there. Bambu's issue is with him taking a fork of Orca and spoofing some data (from THEIR FREELY AVAILABLE SOURCE CODE ) to appear as Bambustudio to their servers. A contract that says you can park in my driveway doesn't give you permission to access my garage and use all my tools. Absolutely a dick move but no…

The AGPL does not just say he has to have access to the modified software. It also says he has to be granted permission to redistribute it, or derived works, under the same terms. He redistributed a derived work under the same terms and got hit with the threat of legal action. I don't know what "access my garage and use all my tools" is supposed to be an analogy for in this situation.

He is free to remove the part where it spoofs itself as BambuStudio and do whatever the hell he wants with it. He can probably distribute it with the spoof and continue without actually getting sued because they are likely fixing this as I type this. If they do sue him it will be for unauthorized use of their cloud services. I do think they'd have to sue individual users.

Accessing my garage and using my tools == using Bambu's cloud infrastructure, which they clearly do not want him (or apparently any non-BambuStudio clients) doing any more.

Re: Restore full BambuNetwork support for Bambu Lab printers

#317

Post by wat10000 »

vfvthunter wrote: post #316
wat10000 wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The AGPL does not just say he has to have access to the modified software. It also says he has to be granted permission to redistribute it, or derived works, under the same terms. He redistributed a derived work under the same terms and got hit with the threat of legal action. I don't know what "access my garage and use all my tools" is supposed to be an analogy for in this situation.

He is free to remove the part where it spoofs itself as BambuStudio and do whatever the hell he wants with it. He can probably distribute it with the spoof and continue without actually getting sued because they are likely fixing this as I type this. If they do sue him it will be for unauthorized use of their cloud services. I do think they'd have to sue individual users. Accessing my garage and using my tools == usi…

The "spoof" as you call it is literally just using their unmodified code. You make it sound like he went in and deliberately changed it so that it would connect. He did not. That part of the code was left unchanged from Bambu's own publicly available source code.

I agree that they might possibly have a case to go after individual users. They don't have a case to go after this guy for distributing a fork of their software with their own publicly available user-agent string unmodified. Threatening to do so is very much against the spirit if not the letter of the license that they're using.

Using their cloud infrastructure without authorization is different from distributing a fork of their software. They may have a legitimate gripe with the former, but they threatened legal action against the latter. If they didn't want people distributing a fork that could connect to their cloud infrastructure by just using their code verbatim, maybe they shouldn't have designed it that way.

Re: Restore full BambuNetwork support for Bambu Lab printers

#318

Post by basilikum »

SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #282
wpm wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the really important part of this is that Pawel modified OrcaSlicer to look like BambuStudio by looking at the AGPL licensed source code of BambuStudio and copying it over. And the function he copied over just set the UserAgent string to some hard coded values also available in the AGPL source code of BambuStudio. He didn't reverse engineer anything. Just went and looked at public code that's free to use for…

> never heard of a fucking dumber way of "securing" a service than a plaintext client-side assertion "I'm allowed to send you print jobs uwu :3" Love it; but just wait, I bet Claude surprises you this year.

I mean, client side secrets and user agent white listings aren't exactly uncommon.

Re: Restore full BambuNetwork support for Bambu Lab printers

#319

Post by vfvthunter »

wat10000 wrote: post #317
vfvthunter wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He is free to remove the part where it spoofs itself as BambuStudio and do whatever the hell he wants with it. He can probably distribute it with the spoof and continue without actually getting sued because they are likely fixing this as I type this. If they do sue him it will be for unauthorized use of their cloud services. I do think they'd have to sue individual users. Accessing my garage and using my tools == usi…

The "spoof" as you call it is literally just using their unmodified code. You make it sound like he went in and deliberately changed it so that it would connect. He did not. That part of the code was left unchanged from Bambu's own publicly available source code. I agree that they might possibly have a case to go after individual users. They don't have a case to go after this guy for distributing a fork of their soft…

He copied the code from BambuStudio into an Orca fork to make it connect to Bambu's cloud. That is A) deliberate and B) easily meets the definition of spoofing.

It is embarrassing that copying that one little thing made a third party fork able to connect to their cloud because A) that would be embarrassing for smaller IoT devices and we're talking about thousand-dollar printers and B) it's highly regarded to be saying on the one hand that your cloud needs security while on the other hand a simple copy/paste of a single function bypassed the security of said cloud that needs protecting.

I agree he would win in court. I don't think they ever planned to even file a complaint. I disagree that it is against the spirit of the AGPL. Signal does the same thing (here's our source code but only our official app can officially connect to our servers and we can ban your app at any time) as far as I can tell and no one complains about them and their shit is AGPL 3.0 only.

As I already said, I don't think they would have any beef with him if he removed that single function - the one that enables use of their cloud infrastructure. The exact problem they have with him, is his distribution of that. I agree that he can distribute it, and they would lose any lawsuit about that. I also agree that its on them to fix it. But returning to the original point, by making source code that can be so easily copied available for download, they have not violated the AGPL. They are not saying he can't distribute his own Orca fork or even his own BambuStudio fork. They're saying "Stop making it connect to our servers" which again I agree is actually their problem. The C&D is just a lazy stopgap.

Re: Restore full BambuNetwork support for Bambu Lab printers

#320

Post by em-bee »

overgard wrote: post #77
c-hendricks wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, why would the method in which the HTML that Google indexes was generated matter? (I get that web vitals might be taken into account, but you don't need a slop generator to make a static page)

From what I gathered from (part of) the video, it's not about the HTML, it's the copy. Basically Google is accidentally/intentionally optimizing for copy that sounds like it came from an LLM or a LinkedIn lunatics post. I'm skeptical but I don't have time to watch the entire video so I don't want to cast an initial judgement on if he's correct or if it just has to do with his specific copy.

i think you got the gist of it. the whole video doesn't really add any evidence as to how he came to that conclusion, it's mostly about why it's bad and how he feels about it.
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