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Let's Buy Spirit Air

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Re: Let's Buy Spirit Air

#311

Post by chadgpt1 »

cromka wrote: post #288
rapatel0 wrote: post #48

Fundamental problem: Flights don't make money. Airlines actually make all of their money through loyalty programs and credit card payments. They basically should have turned into regulated utilities long ago, but loyalty program revenue saved them. Unless this initiative will turn into a credit card company (which nobody likes or wants to do) it won't go anywhere Private equity will likely sell the company for parts.…

And then you have RyanAir in Europe with no credit card or loyalty program offerings. They did have a loyalty subscription program, but it cost more than it generated. Best not to generalize.

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Re: Let's Buy Spirit Air

#312

Post by chadgpt1 »

tomhow wrote: post #71
gtowey wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or they could actually charge ticket prices that cover the cost of doing business and stop treating their passengers like a it's a time-share sales pitch the whole way.

They can't do this most of the time because for most of the year on most routes, supply outstrips demand (i.e., many/most flights on most airlines fly at least a little bit empty, often significantly empty – overall load factors are about 80-85%). They have to charge fares that customers will be willing to pay, even if that means losing money on a given flight. They can only charge profitable fares on the routes and…

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Re: Let's Buy Spirit Air

#313

Post by chadgpt1 »

tt24 wrote: post #220
hedora wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I understand it, everything about the industry was better back then too. Case in point: Old Perry Mason shows where characters regularly drive to the airport, pay for a ticket and get on a plane. Flying was actually faster than driving back then, even when measured by time between deciding to leave and arriving at destination! (Yes, tickets used to cost a bit more. Whatever. Figure in the price for camping in the…

It would be prohibitively expensive for poor people to fly. I understand why you wouldn’t care about that, but some people are poor and still need to fly if you can believe it.

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Re: Let's Buy Spirit Air

#314

Post by chadgpt1 »

avarun wrote: post #96
ajkjk wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

sounds like it's not efficient at all? it's barely functional as a business and is only surviving on grifty addons?

This is a textbook case of competition pushing profits down to 0. That's an ideal case scenario. Why would you want to change this?

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Re: Let's Buy Spirit Air

#315

Post by twiss »

eru wrote: post #249
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like you're living in a different universe then. I will literally never fly Spirit (well, neither will anyone else) nor Frontier ever, I loath the experiences I've had on them so much. First, as someone with relatively long thighs, I literally don't fit in their sardine can seats. But more relevant to most people, while things may be OK if everything goes perfectly and nothing is delayed or cancelled, you are…

From a customers' immediate point of view, this sucks for you. But it's great they are not regulated utilities. Because either everyone would have to pay for extra legroom, even if they don't need it, or some freakishly long people would not be able to pay for the extra legroom that they need.

Why do you think being regulated utilities would preclude having multiple classes of service? Airlines had first class before deregulation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_class_(aviation)#History

Re: Let's Buy Spirit Air

#316

Post by rendaw »

hakunin wrote: post #129
appreciatorBus wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If airlines didn’t exist, people and goods would continue to move around the globe as they have done for thousands of years. There’s nothing magical about air travel (or any other transport mode) that makes it worthy of subsidy .

When something is that drastically different, it becomes different in kind. For example, if you have high network latency, you cannot jam (play live music) with friends remotely. If you have low latency, you can. Just because the difference is in a single value (I.e. net speed) doesn’t mean it doesn’t change the fundamental nature of what’s possible. Air travel makes the kind of business, shipping, and attendance pos…

I think you're saying that there are businesses that rely on cheap air transportation that are very valuable, but at the same time couldn't afford higher air fees.

But that's a contradiction. If they are valuable, their customers would pay more for their services - that's the definition of valuable. And if their customers would pay more, they could afford higher air fees.

Re: Let's Buy Spirit Air

#317

Post by cybercatgurrl »

kulahan wrote: post #99
stackskipton wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consumers only look at bottom line. There is basically two markets with airlines, higher end market with credit cards and premium seating; lower end where consumer solely looks at ticket price.

A huge number of businesses survive on whales, it's becoming really apparent. I'm kinda surprised how common it is. I wonder if this will be the next "market" to exploit if ad revenue ever dies down too much, or if it's one that's always been there, and I've simply never been a part of.

this is a direct result of the shrinking middle class and the greater concentration of wealth. this is the canary in the coal mine

Re: Let's Buy Spirit Air

#318

Post by ahoka »

chadgpt1 wrote: post #307
eru wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Similarly, would you close schools, because they didnt make enough money? Yes, of course. We should separate school and state. > Airlines are highly subsidized anyway, treating them as regulated utilities falls short of taking public ownership as public institutions, where services just cost money/subsidies. How are they highly subsidized? And where? Perhaps we should fix that, instead of adding to the problem? Two…

You'd force an entire generation of children to simply not be educated?

Welcome to feudalism, yay.

Re: Let's Buy Spirit Air

#319

Post by thrance »

gizmo686 wrote: post #94
rapatel0 wrote: post #48

Fundamental problem: Flights don't make money. Airlines actually make all of their money through loyalty programs and credit card payments. They basically should have turned into regulated utilities long ago, but loyalty program revenue saved them. Unless this initiative will turn into a credit card company (which nobody likes or wants to do) it won't go anywhere Private equity will likely sell the company for parts.…

Why does any of this imply they should become a regulated utility? This seems like a textbook case of the free market pushing prices down to cost. Having alternative revenue streams pushed that minimal price down; but even without that, there is no reason to think the market would have done anything other than push prices to the lowest level possible in that environment as well.

If we let the free market do its work, there'd be no airlines. Jet fuel is heavily subsidized, the State injects massive amounts of money into airports and plane manufacturers, etc.

Honestly, with the looming climate crisis, we should probably just let them fail one by one and let alternatives (who can actually be profitable) take off.

Re: Let's Buy Spirit Air

#320

Post by vineyardmike »

eru wrote: post #249
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like you're living in a different universe then. I will literally never fly Spirit (well, neither will anyone else) nor Frontier ever, I loath the experiences I've had on them so much. First, as someone with relatively long thighs, I literally don't fit in their sardine can seats. But more relevant to most people, while things may be OK if everything goes perfectly and nothing is delayed or cancelled, you are…

From a customers' immediate point of view, this sucks for you. But it's great they are not regulated utilities. Because either everyone would have to pay for extra legroom, even if they don't need it, or some freakishly long people would not be able to pay for the extra legroom that they need.

Ah yes, because I am also forced to buy the same amount of electricity and water from my regulated utility regardless of need.
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