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Waymo says can't avoid bike lanes because riders want to be dropped off in them

road.cc

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Re: Waymo says can't avoid bike lanes because riders want to be dropped off in them

#311

Post by maest »

bartwr wrote: post #237
SOLAR_FIELDS wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cities who want to keep cars out of bike lanes should stop offering “mom says we have bike lanes at home” repainting of streets. Create a curb and raise the bike lanes. It’s the only safe solution. I understand this is not realistic in a lot of scenarios but it is basically the only way you can achieve actual safety short of cement separators at the road level, which is basically a curb anyway. There’s just no realit…

My experience cycling regularly in NYC: bike lanes separated by curb, stoppers, or poles are more dangerous as cars stop at their entrances/exits and I am literally trapped or cannot enter them before/after an intersection. I'm not against them in principle, but without extremely strict enforcent of laws (let's say a ticket 5% of someone's annual income and a loss of DL on a repeated offense - this stuff endangers pe…

I semi regularly see big cop SUVs parked here: https://maps.app.goo.gl/MydRmrTkiJMxt3Pi7?g_st=ac

On the bike lane, which is physically separated from the road.

The cop car takes the whole width of the lanes.

It also means the cop had to get on the bike lane here: https://maps.app.goo.gl/frGXL1NpcCW18iRN9?g_st=ac and then drive for a couple of blocks _on the physically separated bike lane_.

Re: Waymo says can't avoid bike lanes because riders want to be dropped off in them

#312

Post by maest »

lxgr wrote: post #224
SOLAR_FIELDS wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cities who want to keep cars out of bike lanes should stop offering “mom says we have bike lanes at home” repainting of streets. Create a curb and raise the bike lanes. It’s the only safe solution. I understand this is not realistic in a lot of scenarios but it is basically the only way you can achieve actual safety short of cement separators at the road level, which is basically a curb anyway. There’s just no realit…

Bike lanes on a curb are significantly more dangerous due to turning car drivers often not seeing them (due to parked cars in the way) or interpreting them as “just a sidewalk” and not properly looking for cyclists.

Not a real problem, as proven by many countries where cycling is encouraged and supported

Re: Waymo says can't avoid bike lanes because riders want to be dropped off in them

#313

Post by pandaman »

kelnos wrote: post #204
doug_durham wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US, bikes == cars. They are required to follow the same rules. I don’t find them nonsensical.

I used to agree with that (as a pedestrian and driver only), but as I've started cycling, I've begun to realize that many rules of the road, intended for cars, just don't make much sense for bicycles.

Like what? I hear people claim that not stopping at STOP sign is somehow making it safer than stopping but when asked about the mechanism of the safety in such a maneuver they either disappear or proclaim that Idaho where this is allowed is in top half of safest states for cyclists so it must work somehow.

I cycle myself and see no rules that somehow don't make sense for bikes. In fact, since bikes are much less maneuverable and much more vulnerable, they need to obey all the rules that are there to protect the cars from other cars with more vigilance than cars.

Re: Waymo says can't avoid bike lanes because riders want to be dropped off in them

#314

Post by cwillu »

gpm wrote: post #303
saelthavron wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't it be safer for the bikers and people exiting on the bike lane side of the car if the bike lane was blocked?

No. Cars entering the bike lane is dangerous. Bicycles being encouraged to enter the car lane to avoid the car illegally blocking it is dangerous. The car stopping in car lane, far enough from the bike lane that its doors won't enter it, and letting the passengers out into the road, is by far the safest. Yes, that means now-pedestrians end up crossing the bike lane. That's a lot better than a car. They move slower, a…

It's a canadian term from hockey, derived from decoy. I'm mildly-but-darkly amused at the notion of a cyclist needing to fake out a car trying to check them though :)

Re: Waymo says can't avoid bike lanes because riders want to be dropped off in them

#315

Post by Rebelgecko »

slibhb wrote: post #253
TulliusCicero wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Drivers generally don't follow traffic laws. They text on their phone while they drive. They routinely go over the speed limit. They go through red lights. They go into or park in bike lanes. They tailgate other drivers. They don't signal before turning or changing lanes.

Drivers generally follow the rules. It's considered bad form when they don't, and they're occasionally ticketed. This doesn't apply to bikers. No one even expects them to follow the rules. I'm not anti-bike. I bike a bit and I got hit by a car last year. Some crackhead turned left across the opposite lane right into me. I'm just reporting what I see -- bikers do not generally follow the rules, and I find this interes…

I know more people who have gotten tickets for running stop signs on their bikes than in cars (even though getting hit by a car at 10mph is much more dangerous to a pedestrian than a bike!). Hopefully Newsom listens to reason and gives up veto-ing commense sense traffic laws next cycle

Re: Waymo says can't avoid bike lanes because riders want to be dropped off in them

#316

Post by messe »

cassianoleal wrote: post #173
messe wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1) Be the only ones to follow the letter of the law, break a lot of people's expectations, and catch backlash for disrupting traffic Yes, they should do that. The fact that others don't follow it is completely irrelevant. I'm sorry if it doesn't help them meet their quarterly targets, but I don't think it's unreasonable for a Company to follow the fucking law when it comes to human safety. And if they can't, they s…

> The fact that others don't follow it is completely irrelevant. This shouldn't even be a discussion. Because someone kills a person, everyone else now needs to kill someone otherwise it breaks expectations? Madness...

The fact that both our comments are being downvoted is dumb.

Over the last year, the vibe on site has become... concerning.

Yeah, it's always leaned right wing capitalist. That's fine by itself—I like the contrast to my own views at times. I'm a lefty—very left compared to US "left"—but still have some right wing economic sympathies at times and in certain areas. There's actual discussion to be had there!

But recently it seems like this site has gone off the fucking deep end in delusion when it comes to everything. The misogyny and transphobia has started becoming less and less hidden too. This is the first time I've logged in here in over a month, and I've seen my comments today getting flagged for arguing against a person saying that bicyclists have more fatalities on the road—just asking them to cite a fucking source.

What you are saying is not controversial. You're not crazy. This site is just full of fucking idiots who haven't realised they're the next serfs in the reality they're bringing about.

Re: Waymo says can't avoid bike lanes because riders want to be dropped off in them

#317

Post by jasomill »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #278
spankalee wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Delivery drivers should find parking. They should be fined heavily for parking in traffic, including bike lanes.

That’s not even close to how dense cities work. Even if you have street parking, it’s often saturated, this is like saying delivery drivers should just deliver in the middle of the night or something. Or really should go with small delivery drones.

Or delivery drivers should ride bikes. And larger deliveries should be scheduled around low traffic times, or else the city should reserve parking for delivery trucks.

Re: Waymo says can't avoid bike lanes because riders want to be dropped off in them

#318

Post by Rebelgecko »

pandaman wrote: post #313
kelnos wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to agree with that (as a pedestrian and driver only), but as I've started cycling, I've begun to realize that many rules of the road, intended for cars, just don't make much sense for bicycles.

Like what? I hear people claim that not stopping at STOP sign is somehow making it safer than stopping but when asked about the mechanism of the safety in such a maneuver they either disappear or proclaim that Idaho where this is allowed is in top half of safest states for cyclists so it must work somehow. I cycle myself and see no rules that somehow don't make sense for bikes. In fact, since bikes are much less mane…

I live in California so YMMV depending on the laws where you live and the temperament of drivers.

If I do a "proper" stop at a stop sign (0mph, place foot on ground, fortunately I don't clip in), cars will see me stopping and try to blast thru the stop sign when it isn't their turn. So I end up stopping while the first car goes thru the intersection, and while I'm getting resituated on the pedals a second car enters instead of waiting their turn, making my situation more dangerous.

One nice law we have in California is that the "walk" sign applies to pedestrians and bikes. This gives me a chance to assert myself in the intersection before the car across from me tries to sneak in a left turn. It also protects me from cars trying to turn across the bike lane.

Re: Waymo says can't avoid bike lanes because riders want to be dropped off in them

#319

Post by jasomill »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #296
fc417fc802 wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd actually agree that they ought to deliver in the middle of the night but indeed that's just not how the world currently works. Far worse than bike lanes I've regularly seen large box trucks driven up onto particularly wide stretches of sidewalk in areas with skyscrapers. Law enforcement doesn't seem to care, presumably because how else are they supposed to get packages to where they need to be?

NYC used to (or still?) enforced strictly parking violations by delivery companies. But they did it so evenly the companies just considered it a cost of doing business, and raised their rates accordingly. Not violating the law and still being in the business wasn’t an option, so no competitor could undercut the other by following the rules and not paying the fine.

Sounds like a scenario where something other than fines should be applied. Revoke plates fleetwide, tow any delivery trucks caught on the street with a mandatory 72 hour minimum impound time, with no access to the contents of the vehicle. And so on.

Re: Waymo says can't avoid bike lanes because riders want to be dropped off in them

#320

Post by Rebelgecko »

nandomrumber wrote: post #78
spankalee wrote: post #59

Cities that want to keep cars out of bike lanes should keep all cars out of them, autonomous or not, by ticketing them. But they don't, so taxis and delivery drivers stop in them. That's traffic enforcement's fault. Given that human drivers stop in bike lanes, Waymo then has a tradeoff: 1) Be the only ones to follow the letter of the law, break a lot of people's expectations, and catch backlash for disrupting traffic…

Share the road. It works both ways.

That's why a lot of these signs are being replaced with "cyclists use full lane".
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