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Coding agents could make free software matter again

gjlondon.com

311–320 of 351 posts

Re: Coding agents could make free software matter again

#311
post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fwiw, AIX and to a far lesser extent Solaris still exist. I'm not exactly sure why people are using them (AIX I can maybe understand because "no one got fired for buying IBM" or whatever but there really isn't any excuse to be running Solaris nowadays since ZFS runs on Linux and and 2 of the BSD based systems and oracle seems desperate to let it die)

Solaris in SPARC is the only production UNIX with hardware memory tagging. Something that some security conscious folks care about.

Does OpenBSD not do that? That feels like something OpenBSD could do, given their near paranoid level of exploit reduction and theos hardon for SPARC

Re: Coding agents could make free software matter again

#312
post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So what is it about GPL licensed software that you feel would make AI training on it not subject to the same copyright and fair use considerations that apply to books? The poster doesn't like it, so it's different. Most of the "legal analysis" and "foregone conclusions" in these types of discussions are vibes dressed up as objective declarations.

You seem like the type of person that will believe anything as long as someone cites a case without looking into it. Bartz v Anthropic only looked at books, and there was still a 1.5 billion settlement that Anthropic paid out because it got those books from LibGen / Anna's Archive, and the ruling also said that the data has to be acquired "legitimately". Whether data acquired from a licence that specifically forbids…

Have you actually read the text of the GPL?

> This License acknowledges your rights of fair use or other equivalent, as provided by copyright law.

It is legitimate to acquire GPL software. The requirements of the license only occur if you're distributing the work AND fair use does not apply.

Training certainly doesn't count as distribution, so the buck passes to inference, which leaves us dealing with substantial similarity test, and still, fair use.

Re: Coding agents could make free software matter again

#313
post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess I am. I genuinly am just a layperson trying to look at what the law would say, so everything is speculation.

If true that would seem to invalidate the entire GPL, but even by that logic, a website (such as chatGPT) distributes javascript that runs the code, and programs like claude code also do so. Again, if you can slip the GPL's requirements through indirection like having your application go phone home to your server to go get the infringing parts, the GPL would essentially unenforceable in... most contexts

That's where the AGPL comes in. The GPL(v2) does not require eg Google or Facebook to release any of the changes they've made to the Linux kernel. That they do so is not because of a legal obligation to do so. The "to get parts" thing is the relevant detail to be very specific on. If those parts are a binary that is used, then the GPL does kick in, but for distributing source code that's possibly derived, possibly not covered by copyright, it's not been decided in a court of law yet.

Re: Coding agents could make free software matter again

#314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why isnt LLM training itself open sourced? With all the compute in the world, something like Folding@home here would be killer

data bandwidth limits distributed training under current architectures. really interesting implications if we can make progress on that

What bandwith limits? Im assuming the forward and backward passes have to be done sequentially?

Re: Coding agents could make free software matter again

#315
post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem like the type of person that will believe anything as long as someone cites a case without looking into it. Bartz v Anthropic only looked at books, and there was still a 1.5 billion settlement that Anthropic paid out because it got those books from LibGen / Anna's Archive, and the ruling also said that the data has to be acquired "legitimately". Whether data acquired from a licence that specifically forbids…

Have you actually read the text of the GPL? > This License acknowledges your rights of fair use or other equivalent, as provided by copyright law. It is legitimate to acquire GPL software. The requirements of the license only occur if you're distributing the work AND fair use does not apply. Training certainly doesn't count as distribution, so the buck passes to inference, which leaves us dealing with substantial sim…

You and I are not a fucking judge, our opinions on this don't matter one bit. We might as well print it on a piece of paper and wipe our asses with it.

Re: Coding agents could make free software matter again

#316
post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Solaris in SPARC is the only production UNIX with hardware memory tagging. Something that some security conscious folks care about.

Does OpenBSD not do that? That feels like something OpenBSD could do, given their near paranoid level of exploit reduction and theos hardon for SPARC

Maybe, why use it on Oracle's hardware?

By the way Linux does it, but then again Oracle has its own distro.

Re: Coding agents could make free software matter again

#317

FOSS is dead - long live, FOSS. FOSS came up around the core idea of liberating software for hardware, and later on was sustained by the idea of a commodity of commons we can build on. But with LLMs we have alternative pathways/enablement for the freedoms: Freedom 0 (Run): LLMs troubleshoot environments and guide installations, making software executable for anyone. Freedom 1 (Study/Change): make modifications, inclu…

Free software apply for software made for humans, by definitions any LLM code can only have the license inherited from the previous work as it's a transformation work. In the end LLM's are just a source of legal troubles and propietary software companies will end suing each other while every pre AI libre software will be 100% legal to use.

Re: Coding agents could make free software matter again

#318
post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does OpenBSD not do that? That feels like something OpenBSD could do, given their near paranoid level of exploit reduction and theos hardon for SPARC

Maybe, why use it on Oracle's hardware? By the way Linux does it, but then again Oracle has its own distro.

So wait, sparc solaris is the only production unix with hardware memory tagging but also linux has it? Are we talking strict SUS compliant systems (current or former because for some reason solaris is no longer listed as such despite ostensibly still being compliant unless the SRUs have seriously FUBARed some things) or unices in general? because I'd argue anyone running SUS compliant systems out of anything other than their choice happening to be compliant is arguably even more niche than running AIX or Solaris for anything else

Re: Coding agents could make free software matter again

#319
post #179
post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I was made redundant recently "due to AI" (questionable) and it feels like my works in some way contributed to my redundancy where my works contributed to the profits made by these AI megacorps while I am left a victim. I think anyone here can understand and even share that feeling. And I agree with your "questionable" - its just the lame HR excuse du jour. My 2c: - AI megacorps aren't the only ones gaining, we all…

> AI megacorps aren't the only ones gaining, we all are. No, no we are not. > the leverage you have to build and ship today is higher than it was five years ago. I don’t want more “leverage to build and ship”, I want to live in a world where people aren’t so disconnected from reality and so lonely they have romantic relationships with a chat window; where they don’t turn off their brains and accept any wrong informat…

> I am left a victim

> I want to live in a world where people aren’t so disconnected from reality

It looks like you are the problem, not the world. Hope you find happiness!

Re: Coding agents could make free software matter again

#320
post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem like the type of person that will believe anything as long as someone cites a case without looking into it. Bartz v Anthropic only looked at books, and there was still a 1.5 billion settlement that Anthropic paid out because it got those books from LibGen / Anna's Archive, and the ruling also said that the data has to be acquired "legitimately". Whether data acquired from a licence that specifically forbids…

Have you actually read the text of the GPL? > This License acknowledges your rights of fair use or other equivalent, as provided by copyright law. It is legitimate to acquire GPL software. The requirements of the license only occur if you're distributing the work AND fair use does not apply. Training certainly doesn't count as distribution, so the buck passes to inference, which leaves us dealing with substantial sim…

There is the clean room problem though.

If a human reads GPL code and outputs a recreation of that code (derivative work) using what they learned - that is illegal.

If an AI reads GPL code and outputs a recreation of that code using what it "learned" - it's not illegal?

If that is the case, then copyright holds no weight any more. I should be allowed to train an LLM on decompiled firmware (say, Playstation, Switch, iPhone) in countries where decompilation is legal - then have the LLM produce equivalent firmware that I later use to build an emulator (or competing open source firmware).

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