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Microsoft's "fix" for Windows 11

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Re: Microsoft's "fix" for Windows 11

#311

Post by bmn__ »

Ekaros wrote: post #70
chii wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> good luck getting the average person through the setup process. an enterprising hardware manufacturer can take on the mantle, and be the trail blazer with a no-setup machine that works. Personally, i would imagine something like framework laptop, and steam machine, are the best candidates.

How long would it take for some MBA to come there and say hey if we install this full of crap we could make multiple euros per unit... And then fill it with crap, spying and other things?

Purely hypothetical, hasn't happened yet. The reason is that Linux system vendors are lead and staffed by people who are idealistic like the average Linux system customer. They know their clientele, they know it would be bad for business.

Re: Microsoft's "fix" for Windows 11

#312

Post by voidUpdate »

someguyiguess wrote: post #310
voidUpdate wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

React is a javascript library. Javascript needs its own runtime. Why not just write stuff in native windows controls and save having to run an entire javascript runtime for no reason?

Only someone who has not tried to write stuff in "native windows" would ask this question. If you want a real answer, go try and develop a Windows native application real quick. I'll wait...

I would hope that the windows developers who are working on the windows shell would know how to write a windows native application in C. If it's that bad, they should improve the API, not just write it all in react instead

Re: Microsoft's "fix" for Windows 11

#313

Post by zerkten »

severak_cz wrote: post #278
dude250711 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think managers were promoted for infecting their features with Copilot, and developers for infecting them with React, and here we are. OneDrive managers on the other hand are one step away from inventing some way of adding a gacha mechanic.

Infecting with React can be easily explained by pathetic state of desktop application development environment. See https://domenic.me/windows-native-dev/

This is an interesting point when the question is "how do I build a Windows app?" and a decision needs to be made. React is definitely one of the options that some consider when this question arises.

I think you miss the more common reasoning though. This starts with "can we build a Windows app?" The answer to that was "no" for many more people until relatively recently. The .NET Framework wasn't as available by default until the second half of the 2000s which caused some Windows app devs to hold off beyond the performance reasons and WinForms vs WPF. Electron and React go hand-in-hand here as they made a (crappy) Windows app easy.

What I feel popularized this was the webview approach on mobile. In 2010, there were a ton of frameworks popping up for hybrid mobile development. This was carried forward to desktop although some of us had been embedding IE webviews much earlier. This let people say "yes" and it went from one thing to the next with diversions into React Native.

Re: Microsoft's "fix" for Windows 11

#314

Post by autoexec »

HexPhantom wrote: post #208
ccppurcell wrote: post #152

I believe they are abusing their customers but I think it's in poor taste to compare this to domestic violence.

The underlying point about power imbalance and gradual normalization of bad behavior is fair, but that analogy carries a lot of real-world weight that doesn't map cleanly to software decisions

> but that analogy carries a lot of real-world weight that doesn't map cleanly to software decisions

It's imperfect. We have way more choices in domestic partners than we do with operating systems but I think there are a lot of similarities though too. User-hostile software like Windows is intentionally designed to develop dependence and learned helplessness in users. Windows will gaslight you. Microsoft will victim blame. Many shared tactics. It's a fair comparison to make.

Re: Microsoft's "fix" for Windows 11

#315

Post by zabzonk »

krige wrote: post #306
wildrhythms wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>sorry, I have never seen these supposed ads in win11 It's a setting called "Get fun facts, tips, tricks, and more on your lock screen", and it's checked by default.

Ah, it's available only if you pick a specific wallpaper image, that's why not everyone sees it.

> pick a specific wallpaper image

you interest me strangely - which one?

Re: Microsoft's "fix" for Windows 11

#316

Post by mattkevan »

fwip wrote: post #253
alexb_ wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even skipping the first step (which requires a second readme ) the next step involves opening a terminal. Instant fail. The entire point of an operating system is to make computers usable without knowing how they work, what a file is, what a command is, or having to look up anything. If something needs to be done, it needs a GUI. Linux is an important operating system, but anyone under the delusion that it is desktop…

I may be showing my grey hair here, but that's emphatically not the point of an operating system.

There’s a big difference between working on a computer and working with a computer.

The people doing the former use computers for ‘real work’. They are using a computer as an end in itself, care about operating systems and have strong opinions about systemd. The people doing the latter couldn’t give two shits about any of that and just want to get their presentation finished on time.

Problem is, both sets of people have to use the same machines. It’s also why software like GIMP will never become widely adopted in professional environments because it’s designed for a completely different userbase.

Re: Microsoft's "fix" for Windows 11

#317

Post by p_ing »

blincoln wrote: post #232
GuB-42 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We could say that Microsoft never lost its way in that regard, it has always been predatory. Where it lost its way however is Microsoft actually cared about Windows, it was their flagship product after all. It was terrible in some aspects, but also excellent in some others. I particular, they took compatibility very seriously, which is far from an easy task in the wild PC ecosystem. They were also quite good in the U…

> Where it lost its way however is Microsoft actually cared about Windows I agree with you, but I feel like they've stopped caring about most of their software. Windows is just the most egregious, high-impact example. SharePoint and Teams were the first ones I noticed. I used to run an enterprise SharePoint farm for a big company. Under the covers it was a Rube Goldberg machine. Microsoft has some of the best databas…

> giant XML blobs instead of using proper, efficient table schemas.

Prior to SharePoint 2013, Microsoft used sparse columns. It made for massive tables and was poor design.

Moving to XML blobs for user-defined schemas was the correct choice. The table schema became significantly smaller and user-defined schemas (for Lists/Libraries) could become much more complex.

Re: Microsoft's "fix" for Windows 11

#319

Post by [deleted] »

bonoboTP wrote: post #207
randoadmin wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, considering that you can run almost anything (excluding games and specialized graphics software) with 99.99999% guaranteed result via WinApps, I don't see what the issue is for a hypothetical member of the majority population. It's not 2016 anymore, you don't have to switch to LibreOffice if you need an office suite of apps. That obviously would be preferable, but if you're an avid Microsoft ecosystem user, jus…

What percentage of MS Office user can, in your estimation, complete the steps as described in this readme? https://github.com/winapps-org/winapps

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