311–320 of 352 posts
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Seriously a need for a new build tool in Java that doesn't fuck around too much.
100% this. Ant was bad in many ways, but at least it was lightning fast. Gradle is just tragic.
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If it were shallow, it'd be easy for them to fix
Backwards compatibility, every vim and emacs and bash enthusiast should know about it. It's easy for the USER to fix, since there are flags available. In the day of LLMs it's also easy to find out about those flags and what they do. And if it's so important, testing shouldn't be supremely hard, either.
Normally when you run a non-Java binary, it uses very little memory to start, doesn't have a limit, and returns memory to the system when it frees things. Supposedly you can set JVM flags to do all that, but performance probably suffers, otherwise they would've just done that. So in practice users are always setting the flags carefully.
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In what way does that "design" show up in Go, besides marketing?
It's replete with oddities and limitations that signal "ah, this is because systems language." Go’s type system, for example, is very much a systems-language artifact. The designers chose structural typing because it was lighter weight, but provided enough type safety to get by. It sucks though for enterprise app development where your team (and your tooling) are desperate for nominal typing clarity and determinism.
But where do Go's docs or founders call it a C replacement? gf000 asked where this is mentioned besides marketing, but I don't see it in the marketing either.
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It's replete with oddities and limitations that signal "ah, this is because systems language." Go’s type system, for example, is very much a systems-language artifact. The designers chose structural typing because it was lighter weight, but provided enough type safety to get by. It sucks though for enterprise app development where your team (and your tooling) are desperate for nominal typing clarity and determinism.
The error handling is like a systems language for sure, I'll agree on that. But where do Go's docs or founders call it a C replacement? gf000 asked where this is mentioned besides marketing, but I don't see it in the marketing either.
https://web.archive.org/web/20091113154831/http://golang.org...
The main page title *Go: a systems programming language*
It still sports all the low-level stuff too, pointer arithmetic and all.
the people that work on Java & the JVM are very smart. it has become a best of breed language - hell its better than Go for industry purposes. the drawback with Java will always be the CULTURE - (maybe someone can insert a quote of how in physics progress is only made, when old physicist die - I don't wanna be morbid ) but with Java same that's when the culture will change. All those people using typescript (could be…
I write TypeScript daily and honestly it is not about being scared of Java. The ecosystem just makes more sense if you are already building for the web. You write your frontend in JS/TS, your backend in the same language, your build tools understand it natively, and you share types between client and server. That is a hard thing to replicate in Java even if the language itself is technically better in some areas. The…
Seeing as we're having a $LANG war, after 15 years in JVM land, I moved to a Python / Go shop, and fuck I miss Java. Not so much the language (although modern Java is pretty slick), but the stuff surrounding it. * No typosquatting issues because every package has a group id verified by real humans and DNS TXT records. * JMX as a standardized mechanism of exposing ways to interact with running code / expose metrics. (…
> * No typosquatting issues because every package has a group id verified by real humans and DNS TXT records. While I think this is a huge boon, have you ever published a package on the Maven Central repository? I must confess I haven't in a few years now, but when I did until ~3 years ago it was a major pain in the ass. And every release again. I think there's something to say about Go's model where the package is j…
I’m really surprised to read this. It is well-documented process. I regularly publish something there, never had problems. Why was it different for you?
the people that work on Java & the JVM are very smart. it has become a best of breed language - hell its better than Go for industry purposes. the drawback with Java will always be the CULTURE - (maybe someone can insert a quote of how in physics progress is only made, when old physicist die - I don't wanna be morbid ) but with Java same that's when the culture will change. All those people using typescript (could be…
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Maybe this is just a question of taste but I never could get along with Javas (or Kotlin's) tooling. Primarily working in Vim/Helix works for most languages from Nix to Typescript or Rust and C, but Java just never worked quite right. It also generally felt like it had a worse story around tooling from a DX perspective, something like Golang or even npm feels a lot lighter than the molasses of JDK management and grad…
> Maybe this is just a question of taste but I never could get along with Javas (or Kotlin's) tooling Are you joking? IntelliJ is without a doubt the best dev tooling environment available.
Idea was useful for Java but felt quite slow and even with vim bindings was a pain to navigate. Learning the shortcuts helped but it never got quite as fast as helix/vim for general editing (especially as my work usually is a polyglot). It might be the best for Java (compared to eclipse or bluej) but that does not mean it fits my workflow/way of work.
PyCharm/GoLand both are "nice" but it did not feel better/more efficient than pylance/pyright)/gopls + vscode/helix. The only I still occasionally use is DataStorm as it is quite a nice SQLite/PostgreSQL client.
edit: fixed typo from gostorm -> goland
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> Maybe this is just a question of taste but I never could get along with Javas (or Kotlin's) tooling Are you joking? IntelliJ is without a doubt the best dev tooling environment available.
No, I'm not. Through university (and even before) I have access to their full suite. I have tried to use PyCharm, GoLand and Idea. Idea was useful for Java but felt quite slow and even with vim bindings was a pain to navigate. Learning the shortcuts helped but it never got quite as fast as helix/vim for general editing (especially as my work usually is a polyglot). It might be the best for Java (compared to eclipse o…
the people that work on Java & the JVM are very smart. it has become a best of breed language - hell its better than Go for industry purposes. the drawback with Java will always be the CULTURE - (maybe someone can insert a quote of how in physics progress is only made, when old physicist die - I don't wanna be morbid ) but with Java same that's when the culture will change. All those people using typescript (could be…
It's getting better, it doesn't all have to be Spring Boot and JBoss. There is quarkus, helidon and micronaut for slimmer more modern backend frameworks. jbang for scripting (think uvx, bunx), Tambo UI ( https://tamboui.dev/ ) for terminal UIs, and more. Along with all the new Java features that help you write much simpler code - eg. virtual threads, structured concurrency, stream gatherers, and performance / resourc…