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MoD sources warn Palantir role at heart of government is threat to UK security

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Re: MoD sources warn Palantir role at heart of government is threat to UK security

#311

Post by infinitewars »

palmotea wrote: post #310
infinitewars wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Drones absolutely make Golden Dome obsolete if they can deliver a nuclear warhead and the purpose of Golden Dome is to win a nuclear war / be impervious to one. Nuclear war is the justification given for violating all fiscal responsibility with this multi-million dollar taxpayer program.

> Drones absolutely make Golden Dome obsolete if they can deliver a nuclear warhead and the purpose of Golden Dome is to win a nuclear war / be impervious to one. No they don't, because you can still deliver a warhead with an ICBM. It just means you need the ABM system and and anti-drone system for it to be complete.

And then you need to stop the Poseidon nuclear delivery system, and the suitcase bombs, and the bio weapons.. do you see where this is going?

Absolute security is an illusion. Even Trump understands this, and why he later pivoted to calling Golden Dome an offensive global strike system. Because yes, that's what it is.

Re: MoD sources warn Palantir role at heart of government is threat to UK security

#312

Post by Manuel_D »

ljm wrote: post #299
Manuel_D wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It'd help make your point to actually share the ominous quotes you're referring to.

You know what? It's all on the public record, and if someone wants to defend these guys or challenge my opinion they can do better than asking for sources of well reported behaviour. Prove me wrong by contributing more than I did.

How am I supposed to prove a negative here? Post a transcript of every statement Thiel and Karp have ever made?

You're the one making an assertion about Palantir. Apparently whatever you're referring to is well reported, but not quite well reported enough for you to actually point out the statements you're referring to.

Re: MoD sources warn Palantir role at heart of government is threat to UK security

#313

Post by palmotea »

infinitewars wrote: post #311
palmotea wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Drones absolutely make Golden Dome obsolete if they can deliver a nuclear warhead and the purpose of Golden Dome is to win a nuclear war / be impervious to one. No they don't, because you can still deliver a warhead with an ICBM. It just means you need the ABM system and and anti-drone system for it to be complete.

And then you need to stop the Poseidon nuclear delivery system, and the suitcase bombs, and the bio weapons.. do you see where this is going? Absolute security is an illusion. Even Trump understands this, and why he later pivoted to calling Golden Dome an offensive global strike system. Because yes, that's what it is.

> And then you need to stop the Poseidon nuclear delivery system, and the suitcase bombs, and the bio weapons.. do you see where this is going?

Yes, it sounds like you're letting the perfect be the enemy of the good: don't build a defense unless it can defeat all threats, all of the time. Go tell that to Ukraine and see what they say.

But even granting what you say for a moment: a defensive system that defeats drones and ICBMs but doesn't defeat nuclear torpedoes is a massive improvement. Sure, it sucks if you live in a coastal city, but inland cities are protected (and the US has a lot of those).

Suitcase nukes and bio weapons are dumb: the former are weak and seem more like a plot device for a action/suspense show than a real threat (beyond random acts of terrorism), the latter seems like a nonstarter because it'd either not be very effective or guarantee blow-back (e.g. your bio-weapon becoming a pandemic that hits everyone).

Re: MoD sources warn Palantir role at heart of government is threat to UK security

#314

Post by ljm »

Manuel_D wrote: post #312
ljm wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know what? It's all on the public record, and if someone wants to defend these guys or challenge my opinion they can do better than asking for sources of well reported behaviour. Prove me wrong by contributing more than I did.

How am I supposed to prove a negative here? Post a transcript of every statement Thiel and Karp have ever made? You're the one making an assertion about Palantir. Apparently whatever you're referring to is well reported, but not quite well reported enough for you to actually point out the statements you're referring to.

This is just being absurd.

If I was to say "Musk is an asshole just look at what he did at the presidential inauguration in 2025" and you said "you'd make a better point by giving a source for that ominous reference", I would think you were acting in bad faith because of how widely reported Musk's nazi salutes were at the time, and I would feel completely fair in saying "go and find out for yourself, you have all of the necessary information to do so."

I would actually think that you were in a position to defend that person but weren't ready to express that yet. So here we are with Thiel and Karp where 5 minutes of using Google or something would bring up various reports of Karp's recent conference statements. And I could have done that myself originally but "source?" is quite an irksome reply to deal with.

Re: MoD sources warn Palantir role at heart of government is threat to UK security

#315

Post by gib444 »

KaiserPro wrote: post #236
0x3f wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure being a pseudointellectual (if that's what he is) would make him evil, would it? I've seen his 'antichrist' talk as part of headlines out of context and to be honest assumed that this is a rhetorical/hyperbolic device, rather than a literal thing. Is your claim that he actually literally thinks someone is the antichrist? So far he just seems to be someone with a bent against degrowthers? Is there a speci…

> would make him evil I should have been more clear, I am not asserting he is "evil", that is a caricature. Given his background, and where and how he grew up, the couching of his views through evangelical eyes is cynical. I am asserting that he is a dickhead, who believes he's playing 4d chess, whilst cultivating a band of people who you would describe as "odious" at best. Now some people might say "oh he's keeping…

No, he's evil.

Re: MoD sources warn Palantir role at heart of government is threat to UK security

#316

Post by gib444 »

qweiopqweiop wrote: post #298
gib444 wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stop sealioning

What? I want to know more to make an informed decision. Do you think you're adding more to the discussion than me here?

Absolutely. Calling out "just asking questions" to prevent derailing is helpful. Look at you asking questions again :)

Re: MoD sources warn Palantir role at heart of government is threat to UK security

#317

Post by infinitewars »

palmotea wrote: post #313
infinitewars wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And then you need to stop the Poseidon nuclear delivery system, and the suitcase bombs, and the bio weapons.. do you see where this is going? Absolute security is an illusion. Even Trump understands this, and why he later pivoted to calling Golden Dome an offensive global strike system. Because yes, that's what it is.

> And then you need to stop the Poseidon nuclear delivery system, and the suitcase bombs, and the bio weapons.. do you see where this is going? Yes, it sounds like you're letting the perfect be the enemy of the good: don't build a defense unless it can defeat all threats, all of the time. Go tell that to Ukraine and see what they say. But even granting what you say for a moment: a defensive system that defeats drones…

I think you're missing the point that spending trillions for a boost phase intercept system (even if it worked) has a massive opportunity cost. A diamond door (or gold!) is a terrible investment if adversaries can bypass it through an open window. There is an opportunity cost, not just for balanced security, but also social and economic costs.

But boost intercept doesn't even meaningfully reduce ICBM threats.. adversaries simply build the bypasses that render the "shield" useless. Offense is always easier and cheaper than defense for this sort of system. ASATs, decoys, cyber, jamming are all low hanging fruit. Sending large synchronized volleys is an easy way to exploit GD's interceptor absentee problem (which is approx 1000x worse than a regional system like Iron Dome).

This all amplifies the false premise that the "shield" will work flawlessly, because if you're going to destabilize MAD you better get it right. The fact is interceptors are not even single 9's in the real world with countermeasures, and a Tesla FSD attempt v420.69 doesn't cut it for nuclear war. (Oh don't worry we'll push a patch and next time we won't lose Chicago!)

And like I said, everyone knows this isn't a defense system for those reasons and more. Golden Dome's satellite architecture is effectively an orbital weapons platform capable of offensive global strikes, which fundamentally destabilizes geopolitics. If you're an engineer working on that you better have your eyes wide open and be able to explain why you think this is a good thing.

For some history, the very first contract SpaceX ever got was for https://wikipedia.org/wiki/DARPA_Falcon_Project a global strike weapons system.

Re: MoD sources warn Palantir role at heart of government is threat to UK security

#318

Post by Manuel_D »

ljm wrote: post #314
Manuel_D wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How am I supposed to prove a negative here? Post a transcript of every statement Thiel and Karp have ever made? You're the one making an assertion about Palantir. Apparently whatever you're referring to is well reported, but not quite well reported enough for you to actually point out the statements you're referring to.

This is just being absurd. If I was to say "Musk is an asshole just look at what he did at the presidential inauguration in 2025" and you said "you'd make a better point by giving a source for that ominous reference", I would think you were acting in bad faith because of how widely reported Musk's nazi salutes were at the time, and I would feel completely fair in saying "go and find out for yourself, you have all of…

In your example with Musk, you actually gave a concrete reference: doing a Nazi salute. You've yet to do even that with Thiel and Karp.

> 5 minutes of using Google or something would bring up various reports of Karp's recent conference statements

And for the third time, you couldn't even be bothered to actually share those statements.

This is the first result from googling "Alex Karp Conference":

> “And so these disruptions are gonna disrupt every aspect of our society. And to make this work, we have to come to an agreement of what it is we’re going to do with the technology; how are we gonna explain to people who are likely gonna have less good, and less interesting jobs.”

What does this demonstrate about Karp's beliefs, besides the fact that he thinks AI is going to disrupt large parts of society? That's a pretty normal belief, is it not?

Perhaps you can't actually find quotes to match your rhetoric, and that's why you repeatedly fail to actually share any statements from Karp and Thiel.

Re: MoD sources warn Palantir role at heart of government is threat to UK security

#319

Post by qweiopqweiop »

gib444 wrote: post #316
qweiopqweiop wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? I want to know more to make an informed decision. Do you think you're adding more to the discussion than me here?

Absolutely. Calling out "just asking questions" to prevent derailing is helpful. Look at you asking questions again :)

I don't consider it derailing and I'm not going to apologise for asking questions :)

Re: MoD sources warn Palantir role at heart of government is threat to UK security

#320

Post by octopoc »

navane wrote: post #70
dlev_pika wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fascism puts a heavy emphasis on aesthetics

They're better at selling ideas than having fleshed out ideas. One could say they sell before they build.

How do you square that with Germany’s miraculous economic recovery pre WII? Obviously they were doing something right. It took every other major power on the planet to take them down.
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