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Parallels confirms MacBook Neo can run Windows in a virtual machine

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Re: Parallels confirms MacBook Neo can run Windows in a virtual machine

#311
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most flash has average wear out after 300k cycles. Let's say 64GB is used for swap. That's 19200 TB or 19.2 PETABYTES of Swap usage. Let's say you swap 12GB a day, you will burn out that 64GB of Flash Storage in 4.38 years and my guess is that amount of swap usage is extremely high that user would probably replace laptop sooner out of performance frustration.

>Most flash has average wear out after 300k cycles No it doesn't. Most 1TB drives are rated for around 600 TBW, so enough to overwrite the drive 600 times, nowhere near 300k cycles. If you search for specs of NAND chips used in SSDs, you'll find they're rated for cycles on the order of hundreds to thousands, still nowhere near "300k". https://www.techpowerup.com/ssd-specs/crucial-mx500-4-tb.d95...

Original mid-90s Toshiba "solid state floppy disk" SLC flash: 1M cycles

2000s SLC flash: 100K cycles

Modern SLC/pSLC flash: 30-60K cycles

2010s MLC flash: 5-10K cycles

Modern QLC flash: 300-500 cycles

...and I won't even get into the details of their retention characteristics, suffice to say they subtly redefined them over the years to make the newer numbers better than they really are.

Re: Parallels confirms MacBook Neo can run Windows in a virtual machine

#312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple have historically moved forward minimum requirements for macOS and apps a bit aggressively. They need to slow that down now if they want us to take the macbook neo seriously.

Good. So many software developers have gotten so lazy with RAM usage in the past few decades. I hope the Neo is a kick in the pants to get everyone in the Apple ecosystem to take memory usage seriously. More efficient software benefits everyone.

It's really quite bad. 'Telegram Lite' is using 1.16GB with just a single chat vs Signal using 193MB. Somehow vscode (including their renderers) manages to come in pretty low compared to even Apples native apps.

Re: Parallels confirms MacBook Neo can run Windows in a virtual machine

#313

MacBook Neo is going to sell like crazy. In the education market, educators, students, aides... nothing close at this price point. With memory and SSD prices so high I don't see how Dell, Asus and others are going to be able to compete. Unless the build quality is significantly worse than a M1 macbook air not sure budget PC makers will be able to compete.

I don't know. Both of my macs are over 7 years old, and have at least 32GB of RAM. Certainly would not buy an 8GB one now.

If you have 32GB Macs, and you had them 7 years ago already, you're not even remotely close to the target market for it.

Parent said "In the education market, educators, students, aides... nothing close at this price point".

That has zero overlap with the "felt the need for 32GB 7 years ago" not-exactly-crowd.

Re: Parallels confirms MacBook Neo can run Windows in a virtual machine

#314
post #136
post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Possible catch: Rosetta 2 goes away next year in macOS 27. I don’t know what the story for VMs is. I’d really like to know as it affects me. Sure you can go QEMU, but there’s a real performance hit there.

Not until macOS 28., but you're right, it's frustratingly unclear whether the initial deprecation is limited to macOS apps or whether it will also stop working for VMs. https://support.apple.com/en-us/102527 https://developer.apple.com/documentation/virtualization/run...

This can be avoided by not upgrading to MacOS 28 right? I'm new to Mac's and the Apple release schedule so I'm not sure how mandatory the annual updates are.

Re: Parallels confirms MacBook Neo can run Windows in a virtual machine

#315

Man, I do wonder what the realistic lifespan of that single NAND chip will be after it gets hammered by constant swapping of running tasks way beyond the capabilities of a 8GB RAM machine. I have a PC with a 10+ year old 256GB SATA Samsung SSD that's still in top shape, but that's different because that drive has those 256GB split over several NAND chips inside, so wear is spread out and shuffled around by the contro…

While high-density NAND is definitely worrying from a data retention standpoint, your reasons don't make sense. There has been a decrease in reliability with higher densities, and unless Apple is using SLC (strong doubt) you would expect around the same as any other manufacturer.

The sibling comments mentioning endurance don't tell the complete story either; continuously writing a drive until it shows errors means the cells have become leaky enough that they can't even hold data between each write and verify pass (hours or minutes apart), and while people point to such studies as "proof" that NAND endurance isn't something to worry about, they forget that endurance and retention are inversely related, as with temperature, and this is a statistical effect, so the true specification is more like "X years/months at temperature T after Y cycles with a BER of Z"; each one of those variables can be adjusted to make the others look as good or bad as you want.

Re: Parallels confirms MacBook Neo can run Windows in a virtual machine

#316

Apple is moving into Google's territory, cheap Chromebooks. The right move for Google is to aggressively move forward with their desktop OS and launch their line of laptops. The first pixel laptops had the best keyboards and trackpads ever. Google can nail this if they have the right product person. Apple needs some competition and the legacy PC makers won't cut it. Once again, it has to be Apple vs Google, same as A…

What’s actually going to happen is the second they start to lose market share or struggle at all, they will cancel everything Chromebook related and give up. With that said, I think Chromebook’s still hold a competitive advantage for public school contracts. It doesn’t matter that the Neo is pretty cheap and the best value. Contracts are signed based on what’s cheapest, period. Also, a big blind spot for a lot of HN:…

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Re: Parallels confirms MacBook Neo can run Windows in a virtual machine

#317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is actually the reason the Neo has 8 GB of RAM (non-upgradable). It’s their anti-cannibalization strategy. They’re relying on the huge portion of their existing laptop market who self-identifies as “tech-savvy” or “enthusiast” and thinks 8 GB of RAM is a non-starter. Those folks will keep buying Mac laptops at double (or triple, quadruple, …) the price.

> I think this is actually the reason the Neo has 8 GB of RAM (non-upgradable). It’s their anti-cannibalization strategy. It has 8 GB of RAM because they wouldn’t be able to hit the price point of $599 with more; their target audience doesn't need more. It's also why the SSD is slower than a MacBook Pro or MacBook Air; it's the only device in the lineup other than the entry-level iPad with a sRGB display; the other d…

> It's also why the SSD is slower than a MacBook Pro or MacBook Air;

It's actually not that much slower, at least if you compare machines with the same amount of storage. The M2 and M3 MacBook Air with 256GB comes in at 1700 MB/s[1], while the Neo with 256GB is... drumroll... 1700 MB/s[2].

Yes, Air and Pro machines with more storage are faster. I have not seen any benchmark of the Neo with 512GB, so maybe it lags behind the Air and Pro there. But I've not seen anyone publish a benchmark which actually demonstrates that.

[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/mac/comments/1gvovdt/the_ultimate_g...

[2] https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/macbook-neo-has-up-to-8...

Re: Parallels confirms MacBook Neo can run Windows in a virtual machine

#318
post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know. Both of my macs are over 7 years old, and have at least 32GB of RAM. Certainly would not buy an 8GB one now.

If people want to emulate what it is like to have low memory on your current mac, you can run `memory_pressure` on the cli.

Is it relevant with 5-15 year old RAM?

Re: Parallels confirms MacBook Neo can run Windows in a virtual machine

#319

MacBook Neo is going to sell like crazy. In the education market, educators, students, aides... nothing close at this price point. With memory and SSD prices so high I don't see how Dell, Asus and others are going to be able to compete. Unless the build quality is significantly worse than a M1 macbook air not sure budget PC makers will be able to compete.

PC makers are going to stop some of the artificial segmentation they used on the lower price devices, and that is going to hurt the sales of their higher-end lines. There is no reason they kept pushing 70 percent srgb panels on even the mid tier Thinkpads when the Neo has a good display.

I wonder if it’s less about price and more about supply chains. Are there enough manufacturing capacity to allow every laptop maker to secure enough supply?

In advance of the neo’s release, Apple probably invested billions in ensuring the supply chain was ready.

Re: Parallels confirms MacBook Neo can run Windows in a virtual machine

#320
post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not until macOS 28., but you're right, it's frustratingly unclear whether the initial deprecation is limited to macOS apps or whether it will also stop working for VMs. https://support.apple.com/en-us/102527 https://developer.apple.com/documentation/virtualization/run...

This can be avoided by not upgrading to MacOS 28 right? I'm new to Mac's and the Apple release schedule so I'm not sure how mandatory the annual updates are.

Does Apple Silicon support VMs within VMs?

What if you run MacOS 27 in a VM, and then run the x86-hosting VM inside that?

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